Source
r/relationship_advice•
cloud9167

Spouse (31F) gets upset when I (30M) get sad about her witholding my love language

Please forgive formatting errors typing from a mobile.

Long time stalker 1st time poster

Ok so here is the situation my wife of 6 years withholds physical attention(mind you not sex, that's a whole other matter) but things like cuddling, showering together, just sitting together, kissing, handholding and other none sexual things. For reasons like "I'm hot" (where's sweatpants and sweatshirt), "I need space, siteng that I was a cling 2 days ago" Then today I wanted to shower with her, we have a lot of really good conversations in the shower, and I love seeing her, and having a bit of skin time,. I am not overtly sexual, but I do get a a hard on, but don't act upon it. She asks why I had not showered already, I told her that I was waiting for her, we both just finished working out, and she just got our 3 year old son to sleep. She tells me that she doesn't want to shower with me because there is not enough water in there(never been a problem before for the before bed shower) I get a bit sad, grab a quick shower, and come out a bit down. She says don't be mad, don't be sad, I say is it wrong to feel a bit down after getting denied my love language? She then comments that I am an ass and locks the bathroom door, which upset me even more, that she didn't trust me not to hop in the shower with her...she comes out I am playing my switch not saying anything, she then says she doesn't want to cuddle tonight because she is hot(again putting on sweats), gives me a weak goodnight kiss, and then turns to be on her phone.

A bit more of background she is far less sexual than I and that has been a big fighting point in our marriage, so a few months ago I have reduced my sexual advances toward her alot, which she promised to be more non sexual physical with me in return.

Now I feel like she is pulling back on the physical as well and it makes me feel upset, when I try to bring it up to her are says I am a cling, and then it just devolves into silence or her calling me an ass. I have tried to find a new love language, but it just doesn't not work.

Now for the question.

Is it wrong to feel upset when my love language is denied? And how should I approach this with her? Because I would like to resolve this, I hurts when she gets like this, which is a getting to be more often.

Edit. Thanks everyone for reading and especially those that replied. It has been helpful to me to air this and talk about it even though it is with complete strangers on the internet.

Posted Jan 3, 2019, 5:11 AM UTC · edited

432
baigish•

If she is the main caregiver, then my guess is that you are the main breadwinner. Why don't you just stop going to work? Tell her that you don't feel like going. Tell her that before you go to work to support your family, you have to be "feeling it" and that you aren't feeling it lately.

If some hot young thing was coming on to you and she knew it, my guess is that she's be "feeling it". She sounds like she is lazy and entitled and feels no desire to try. She is entitled to the fruit of your efforts with no need to be appreciative or affectionate.

A 3 year old!? Hell, he might as well be 14.

I have 5 kids and we always found time to have fun. Always.

You need to talk to her. And I mean really talk to her. A sexless, physical affection free marriage is as much a violation of the marriage, as sex with other people.

The child is 3 years I old. Not 3 months old.

How many children do you have?

5
cloud9167OP•

Thanks for the reply.

Yes I am the main breadwinner. She works as well, full time, making just short of what I make, we decided that my career was the primary one because of how much time I have in and the benefits we get from it. If I just stop going to work I would go to jail (military).

Our three year old is very clingy and goes through phases of wanting daddy or mommy.

Our marriage is not sexless, but we only have sex if I push for it, she has only ever inciated sex once in our marriage, Generally if I am not pushing for it we could go a whole month between 15 to 30 min sessions. If I push, maybe once every two weeks.

I have tried and she makes me feel like I am blowing it out of porportion and calls me an ass when I am upset.

We have one child

1
baigish•

I once tried to withhold sex from my wife. We went about 6 weeks without her touching me or kissing me. I realized that I initiate all sexual contact. Her job is to keep her and her kids happy. I'm the muscle (wallet) behind her life. An employee if you will.

I had a heart to heart with my wife and said that this has to change. To her credit, she stepped it up. But people get lazy and entitled. Its natural. We have to have this talk about every 12 months.

Monogamy is an artifice. Its not natural, but there is no way to go back to our paleolithic sexual practices. That is why marriage is so hard. Its unnatural.

-1
cloud9167OP•

I am very interested in how you have this talk with her.

1
baigish•

Here is something that women need to understand about men. Men crave sex. They need sex to function. Some men need it like a diabetic needs insulin. Most men would take all the sex offered to them. If unlimited sex were offered to them from sexual maturity to the day they die, they would feel like on some level there was some sexual opportunites they missed out on. This isn't good or bad. It's just the way nature made us. Women know this and leverage it to their benefit (This is not necessarily a bad thing). Let her know this. Let her know that the way you feel close to her is through physical closeness. Its not a crime to process the world like a man or a woman. You are just different.

On a side note: Women eroneously think that they have a monopoly on supply once in a monogamous relationship. With any monopoly, the price of the product goes up and the quality of service goes down. The supplier acts like they own you and it creates feelings of contempt in both directions.

Women need to know that if they don't take care of business at home, Eventually it'll occur elsewhere. If he's a high social status male, it'll definately occur sooner. If she isn't giving it up 2+ times a week, don't be shocked if there are profound issues in the relationship.

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JustWordsInYourHead•

It’s not wrong to be hurt.

However the way you react when hurt can be ineffective.

You say that you came out of the shower “sad”? What does that look like? “Sad” looks different on everyone. “Sad” for me is being sullen and cold shouldering my husband. My version of “sad” is my husband’s version of “emotional hostility”. When I am “sad”, I shut down and don’t effectively communicate to my husband about my needs.

So, what does your “sad” look like and how does it come off to your wife? Based on how your wife views your hurts and needs, how can you change the way you communicate theses hurts and needs to achieve better understanding?

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cloud9167OP•

Thanks for the reply

From my perspective my sad is sullen and disconnected. I tend to try to avoid conflict, so when she asks what is wrong I will say nothing to avoid a fight. Sometimes She then keeps asking until I tell her, then she gets upset about my answer.

Earlier in our marriage I found this method led to less fights, because if I say what's on my mind she would get upset about my view.

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JustWordsInYourHead•

Thank you for elaborating!

It sounds like being sullen and disconnected can make her feel shut out from You. I understand from your point of view, you are trying to avoid a fight/upsetting her. I completely identify with this because I have a similar experience in my marriage—sometimes when I told my husband what upset me, he would get defensive or offended and that made me not want to tell him why I was sad.

It was difficult because it made me build up little resentments so when he did manage to get me to tell him what was wrong, it would come out with more anger than was necessary, which would result in a fight anyway.

What we’ve thought about doing is having these mutual “safe space” talks. Basically these one a week talks with each other about how we’re feeling and whether either of us has needs that weren’t being met. We haven’t managed to put this plan into practice yet (toddler is always around and sleeps with us...) but the theory is that if we set aside time to air our grievances with each other, we’d both be better prepared to listen to each other without getting defensive or argumentative. We both have agreed that simply mentioning hurts and upsets as they happen can make the other person feel ambushed and thus go into defensive mode, which is why we want to try the set time to talk method.

For you, I think it would help to figure out why your wife gets upset or defensive when you attempt to communicate your negative feelings towards her actions. Let her know that this dynamic is causing emotional distance between you and it is in itself a communication issue that should be resolved before any other issues can be addressed properly. Ask her why she feels upset when you tell her what’s wrong. Ask her how you can voice your hurts differently in a way where she would empathise with you rather than just get upset with you.

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cloud9167OP•

Wow thanks for the really thought out reply. I will try to put this into action. I really like this "safe space" talk idea you have.

1
sweetbreez•

What popped out the most in your post to me was that y’all have a 3 year old. Is she the main care giver of the 3 year old? If that is the case (sex issue aside), I can totally understand her needing some alone time. I also have a young one and can not imagine the idea of showering with my husband being very appealing to me at least during these years with the young kids lol.

We also don’t really have the difference in sex drive issue though. At least not a big difference. I can imagine that would be really difficult for the both of you though.

I don’t think it is unreasonable to be upset that she doesn’t make an effort to to hold your hand or a pop kiss or little things like that. That doesn’t take much effort.. but the shower is a bit pushy. Cuddling is something I usually wouldn’t turn down, but everyone is different!

Also, I’m not sure if I would word it to your wife that she is denying you your love language.. I mean I guess if y’all are reading those books then maybe it is all good. But something about it sounds off putting to me, just being completely honest!

2
cloud9167OP•

Thanks for the reply.

Caring for our son is about a 50 50 split, I generally do the night routine with him, bath, stories, cuddles, but he wanted mommy for stories and cuddles, so I took care of the bath, got him dressed and bedtime snacked. I finished my workout a bit earlier than her so I took him to his room to play with his toys, and took him on a walk to allow her to finish her workout

I have read the book, she has not, been trying for 2 years to get her to read it, audiobook, podcast it with no avail

She asks why I am upset, and I am honest, if I say "nothing" she gets even more upset with me.

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baigish•

I guarantee that you and your husband have a difference in sex drive. For most men, they could have all the sex they could physically partake in and they would feel on some level that it was never enough.

For most women, sex is a slow build or slow burn to a big roaring fire. Mens' approach to sex is like striking a match. Fast fire, bright and burns out quickly.

I think that most women are incapable of understanding how deeply men crave sex. Men just learn to control it, well, most of us do.

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sweetbreez•

I do think you are right that this is the case for most people. And I guess that is thanks to testosterone.. men have a lot of it and us women not so much.

We have sex about once per week, sometimes every other week just depending on how busy our schedules are. Only issue we really have (that I have noticed at least) is that I have to tell him “later” a lot of the time. Like when he wants it, he wants it right then and he would be completely fine just doing it in front of our 2 year old which I have to just put my foot down and say no.. it’s hard with kids. Before kids, there were times he turned me down though. These days I just let him initiate it usually. And I don’t turn him down unless I have to like the example above.

2
cloud9167OP•

Thanks for the reply

In the beginning of our marriage sex was great, every other day or so like it was when we were dating. After our son, she started turning me down, alot.

Now a days she still turns me down 9 out of 10 times, for reasons like she is tired, that she needs space, or she doesn't want it. It would make me feel unatractive, or undisired and it hurt a bit. And if we do have sex it is almost always vanilla, meaning no real foreplay, and no exploring our sexuality together.

I have tried several things to get her in the mood more such as helping out house, helping with our son, almost completely quiting video games. Used to play MMOs and other games that cannot be paused, now if I play, instead of sitting with her, I play games that can be paused. She still gets upset because I have a hard time switching tasks, especially if I am focused on something and would reply with short answers.

I have tried to get her to play with me but she feels like she is just following me around. I tried switching to support roles in games that results in her getting fustrated because she can't progress past points that I can't heal through her standing in fire or standing in telegraphed moves.

So now our quality time consists of watching shows I dislike,and I feign interest. Because honestly I could care less if the bachelor gets with girl or another, or if a product on shark tank is going to get funding. But hey at least I am cuddling and getting touch.

1
sweetbreez•

I’m so sorry!

There is also that “Love Dare” challenge from the movie Fireproof. It is religious based though. But some of the daily “dares” are helpful I feel like. We tried that once just for the fun of it, but didn’t get all the way through it. I haven’t read the live language books, but have wanted to.

After reading some other comments, I personally think that her lack of effort in even reading the books, or even working on your relationship what so ever is.. a shame. I say shame, for lack of a better word. And also I don’t want to say something too negative as that would be unhelpful.

So what is her deal? She just doesn’t like sex? Does she not orgasm when y’all do it? I get she is a less sexual person, but wondering if there is something else going on here.. like she just doesn’t like sex or doesn’t like sex past the honey moon phase of a relationship.

You are asking for help about wanting her to show you more affection in other ways though, and it seems that she isn’t even trying. The best advice that I can really give is to not push it. I think that pushing it is honestly only going to make things worse. Just my opinion. She isn’t reading the books or showing any interest in the “love language” thing, so maybe just drop that method. She has to also want to work on yall’s relationship. It can’t be just you. Maybe you could tell her that you aren’t going to push for anything and let her take the lead with physical affection and sex. See what happens? Or have you already tried this?

I’m the mean time, try to figure out why she doesn’t want to work on the relationship, why she doesn’t like sex, etc. and work on yourself as well. Work on finding ways to increase your sexual appeal. New clothes, cologne, a sense of other female interest (be careful with this one though).. you just want her to see that you could get it else where if you wanted. But do not ever say that you want to. Hopefully you don’t lol. But it might help if she thinks that other women are interested in you.

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cloud9167OP•

I have started trying to control it, my efforts have reduced the fighting about it.

1
shiny_red_ball•

You're going to get a lot of people coming to her defense or making excuses for her but I'll say this. It isn't okay to not speak your spouse's love language once it has been communicated clearly. Having said that you may have to get more pushy on getting her to understand what you mean. You read the book and she hasn't. So you may have to up the communication game and say listen, I know this doesn't come natural to you but when you withhold, make excuses, or tell me what I feel is wrong, you push me away. A person can only fight so long. Also, use this opportunity to spin it in a positive way as well. Say, "I want to know your love language, what makes you happy, so I can do better".

2
cloud9167OP•

I have gotten her to take the quiz her thing is quality time and acts of service Her and I do not have the same interests when it comes entertainment, and we both have trouble holding conversations everywhere but the shower,. I have sat and watch shows that make me kringe, and generally uncomfortable such as shark tank, and the profit.(I cannot do the arguing). I love space and anime when it comes to TV watching, she hates it and will not watch a show I pick.

As far as playing to the acts of service I have within the last year really stepped up the household cleaning, even though I hate certain jobs, I do them as well. I have asked her to write a honey do list and I generally knock it out by the end of the month.

3
baigish•

Most women really like a man who helps them with the housework in a pinch, but a man in an apron doing dishes makes her view you as a servant. Not someone who makes her horny. Women have been socialized into believing that a husband who helps him with the housework is a form of foreplay. I read two studies about 3 years ago it overwhelmingly stated that women do not find men participating in feminine chores makes them more attracted to them. Just the opposite.

2
Beaglecita•

Communication Scholar here- I'd love to see these studies. I've never heard of this before. Men holding babies, fixing things around the house, cooking and doing dishes are VERY attractive. These actions scream provider, manliness, and PARTNER which equates to sex and wanting to have their babies. This is biological.

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shiny_red_ball•

Not poster but here ya go. Also I think you may be convoluting what's attractive with what's arousing.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/

1
baigish•

I think women tell themselves that they like men doing house work. "Its Forplay". Rather than doing the dishes and vacuuming, it'd be sexier for most women if he was remodeling the kitchen or removing and replacing the driveway with new concrete for a fraction of the retail price. Reroofing the house, building a deck....

I'm not talking about some useless guy who sits of the sofa after work and does nothing all evening and them asks for sex. A guy who helps when in a pinch is great. But men who do as much housework as women is typically not sexy.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/03/guys-who-do-housework-get-less-sex.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doing-household-chores-may-mean-less-sex-for-married-men/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housework-have-less-sex/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11284963/Men-who-do-less-housework-have-more-sex.html

A useful, competant man who works hard at the office and around the house is great. It screams provider. A man who loads the dishwasher and does the laundry is helpful, uselful, covenient, etc. But not sexy. This is not a man on his way up the heirarchy of society.

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cloud9167OP•

But if I don't help out with the chores she accuses me of not contributing to the household maintainance.

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cloud9167OP•

Could I have the links to the security studies you mentioned?

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shiny_red_ball•

Not poster but here ya go

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4273893/

1
baigish•

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/03/guys-who-do-housework-get-less-sex.html

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/doing-household-chores-may-mean-less-sex-for-married-men/

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/men-who-do-housework-have-less-sex/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11284963/Men-who-do-less-housework-have-more-sex.html

1
HeartArtichoke•

"Feminine" chores??? Wtf

1
baigish•

Traditionally feminine chores. Read my comments in totality and context. Don't just pick one phrase and then feign outrage. Read the article(s) I posted. This conversation is not about "feminine" chores.

1
Echinoderm_only•

I’m just one person, but to me, if I feel like I’m the parent to my spouse (having to do all the chores, remind him to do things etc) that kills my libido faster than anything else. A man that takes care of his home and children... a true partner that I can trust... THAT is sexy. Thankfully my husband is fucking awesome.

The idea that men are not pulling their weight in order to seem manly and get sex from their woman, sounds so utterly adolescent.

1
baigish•

I'll not sure I understand the last paragraph. Are you saying that your man does step up and pull his weight around the home and at work, or are you saying that he does not and he is still attractive to you? I apologize for not understanding.

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TotesMessenger•

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[deleted]•

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