Source
r/gaming•
Reothecube

Is anyone else getting frustrated about games never having a defined end?

So I'm noticing that almost every game I'm playing just doesn't end, I beat it and pretty much just informs you there is going to be another game that takes place after that one. Is it really that hard to pin another story in the same vein?

The other thing that gets me is that when I find games that actually do end, there is hardly ever a final boss fight that's worth mentioning and it ends a complex story on two pages like a Goosebump book I read when I was 9.

It's really starting to get annoying and seemingly more common, the ending can easily kill a movie, and it sucks that games can get 9.5 or 10 rankings yet don't end, and tell you wait 2+ years, and that never seems to be a problem. And as gamers, it seems really sad that we have to put up with it, but I guess it just shows marketing in action

Posted Dec 13, 2009, 7:52 PM UTC

1981
Clampurloiner•

I agree with this completely, unfortunately this trend of leaving endings open is not isolated to games. More and more tv shows are leaving horrible endings to their seasons in hopes of being renewed, it's such a shame because rarely does a good show have a good ending, instead they continue on for multiple season where the original story is completely lost, and the plot has been dragged through so much garbage that the show loses its magic (I'm looking at you, lost). Some movies are beginning to do this too, although not to the extent that games are.

A good representation of this trend is just how many games that came out in recent years that are sequels, Fallout 3, call of duty 6, street fighter 4, virtua fighter 5, tekken 6, assassins creed 2, skate 2, soul caliber 4, gears of war 2, guitar hero whatever-the-fuck...the list goes on.

My guess is that it's simply too risky for a developer to put time and money into a franchise that they cannot guarantee will do well, so they just add to an already popular franchise in a bid for 'safe' bucks.

Goodbye creativity, hello game assembly lines.

14
fourthirds•

Suggesting that sequels are somehow worse or that sequels remove creativity and turn things into 'game assembly lines' really ignores some great games:

Baldur's Gate 2

KOTOR 2

Jedi Knight (sequel to Dark Forces)

All the subsequent GTA games

Halo 2

Monkey Island 2

Icewind Dale 2

Rome and Medieval 2 Total War

Star Control 2

Heroes of Might and Magic X

Master of Orion 2, 3

Ultima 5-8

Halflife 2

Fallout 2

The fact of the matter is that most games in a given year are shitty and some are great. It has very little to do with whether or not it's a sequel.

15
[deleted]•

But that's not the problem. Yes, there are some brilliant sequels, where sequels are due. But I've stopped buying them (with a few notable exceptions). Why? Because I now have precious little time for gaming, and I want the experiences I have to be unique, not some rehashed old title with a new story and a different gun mechanic.

Lets look at a few other recent games. Dead Space has been widely hailed as one of the best survival horror games to date. Borderlands is known as a great multiplayer shooter. There didn't even use to be games like Mirror's Edge and Braid.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that a lot of us really get excited about something new. There is a place for sequels - all those you mention (that I've played) have been wonderful. But some games - Left4Dead 2, for example (I wasn't a boycotter as such, I just didn't buy the game) - are released before the dust has even been allowed to settle on the original. So in my view, if a company is going to make a game that leads into a sequel, they should really be prepared to make it unique.

7
[deleted]•

Did you mention Borderlands ironically? That game had the least-defined ending I can recall. It's not a sequel, but with regards to the thread title, it's the perfect example of an undefined, completely open ending.

5
[deleted]•

Mmm, I'm only halfway through it, so I'm sorry. Just enjoying it so far.

2
talklittle•

if a company is going to make a game that leads into a sequel, they should really be prepared to make it unique.

I get what you're trying to say, but we can all think of at least a couple examples of games we wish hadn't been "innovated on" so much.

2
[deleted]•

I for one know that Spore innovated the hell out of me!

3
[deleted]•

Well, KOTOR 2 left a lot to be desired (when it was released at least). But you make an ok point.

The key though, is that there is a difference between a legitimate franchise, and show horning a "to be continued" ending onto a story just so you can rack up the bucks on a sequel.

6
mordaunt0•

nitpick: it's shoehorn. The usage comes from a device that's used to get your feet into shoes that are bit snug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoehorn

5
[deleted]•

Oh, yeah, I know that. It was a typo. sorry.

2
Clampurloiner•

I didn't really mean to imply that games were necessarily getting worse because they are a sequel (in fact, most of the games I listed, and you listed I have played, and enjoyed). The idea was more that we are seeing less and less 'variation' in the games coming out and big franchises with lots of sequels dominate (and will probably continue to dominate) the 'big releases' list of the year. Maybe the last line was a bit brash, meh.

2
jlobes•

Upmod for reminding me of Icewind Dale. God damn that shit was SO GOOD.

1
Khendroc•

can i borrow your HOMMX?

1
taw•

Rome and Medieval 2 Total War

Speaking of sequels, Empire Total War is unbelievably buggy and quite bad compared to RTW and M2TW.

1
fourthirds•

Yeah, that's what I've heard. I'm going to see how it is after a year or two once all the patches/mods have come out - hopefully those will help.

If you're taw of taw's blog, I've been really enjoying the words on your blog the last few months. My gf is more partial to the cats. Something for everybody.

2
taw•

Yes, that's me. Thanks for support :-D

1
ArcticCelt•

Just out of curiosity did you follow all episodes of lost or did you stop some time ago because you were tired of it?

4
Clampurloiner•

I stopped long ago, along with many of the people I have talked to about the show. Although I do know a couple people still watching, who are completely engrossed with it.

3
Khendroc•

By season 2 you're hooked. By season 3 you realize they're just making shit up as they go along. Season 4 confirms this. Then season 5 comes along and you realize they had everything planned perfectly thus far and it's just great, great shit.

11
ArcticCelt•

Well I asked that because in my opinion the show has never made as much sense as it is making now. I have to admit though that around season 2-3 I was starting to be bored to death about their constant non explained bullshit and mysteries that they keep piling up. I nearly stopped watching at that point. But then suddenly everything started making sense and they are now starting a carefully planed final season. In fact after watching interviews with most of their creative team this seems to me one of the best planed final season of a TV series. The only other one that comes to my mind is Babylon 5. In other words they are the exact opposite of a show without a well planed ending.

2
lactomar•

I can agree with that, season 5 is up on Netflix watch instantly, pretty good use of my time so far. Kind of a SPOILER alert, but I hope they time travel for the whole season.

1
ChunkyLaFunga•

It's a little different with TV shows, if a show isn't a single set-piece then it starts with a pilot that should but may not run into a season then a season that should but may not run into a series. Often the producers do not know until it's too late whether they will be renewed or not, so cannot prematurely write the ending.

Games are more like films, where products are short, large bursts of high-cost production unlike the long-term steady stream of TV.

3
Clampurloiner•

I wasn't really railing against all shows, obviously shows like sitcoms end up in this situation, but it doesn't matter because it isn't the story that is important, more the situations. Shows where the ending should be prematurely written are shows like lost, or dexter, where the ending should bring some sort of closure, and not drag an otherwise good show into "I stopped paying attention after season 6, no longer give a shit about the ending or the convoluted characters" territory.

1
thatguitarist•

Fallout 3, call of duty 6, street fighter 4, virtua fighter 5, tekken 6, assassins creed 2, skate 2, soul caliber 4, gears of war 2, guitar hero whatever-the-fuck...the list goes on.

All of them are damn good games.

2
sirfink•

Ironically, one of the games you mention -- Fallout 3 -- had a very definite ending and this pissed off gamers to no end! Most everyone hated the ending and, in fact, hated the fact that the game had an ending at all! This was quickly changed in a patch and later expansions.

2
s0ul•

I was thinking about this the other night and almost agreed with you but then I thought about which games I've been looking forward to recently and a lot of them are only the second in recently established IPs. Though this may seem at face level to reinforce your point, a lot of these have popped into existence in the last year or two and a lot of them have found some pretty significant success: Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Modern Warfare is debatable but it's a pretty unique splinter-cell from its series, No More Heroes, Dead Space. Though these games are getting sequelized, they're all new faces and most have a planned story arc and predetermined number of games in the series and are exemplary of the fact that new stuff does show up and does take off sometimes. I don't think there's quite as much cause for pessimism as you're making it sound like.

1
PopeJohnPaulII•

Even worse then that is having an ending and then as soon as the next season/game starts just make up some quick reason why it won't work and move on back to the original story. Like two characters FINALLY getting together in a finale only to have them come back and do a "Oh it didn't work out" routine. Then tension builds back again and we are back where we started.

1
mintyice•

When did call of duty 6 come out? i must have missed it.

-3
Clampurloiner•

Really? I guess that was meant to be funny, it wasn't.

-1
mintyice•

Really? I guess that was meant to be funny, it wasn't.

-1
Phinaeus•

Yeah, I dislike MMOs as well.

8
LG03•

I'd be willing to bet most developers deliberately leave their games open ended so if the game is successful there's room for a sequel

7
ReothecubeOP•

Kind of what I was thinking about it all, but I think it pisses a lot of people off. If a game is good, they're going to buy the sequel, especially if it's in the same vein and another chapter. Look at all the people that bought Far Cry 2 thinking it was an actual sequel to Far Cry.

5
[deleted]•

it's a shame some developers don't own the franchise they're working on.

1
Ciserus•

There's a right way and a wrong way to do a cliffhanger.

The right way is to have a coherent story arc that wraps up in a satisfying way, with enough loose ends to tease a sequel or maybe a cliffhanger afterward. Example: the original Metal Gear Solid.

The wrong way is to just cut the story off before the end (or even in the middle). Or worse, not bother to write an ending and assume you or someone will come up with one whenever the sequel is greenlighted. Example: most of the major franchise games in the last five years.

Not that doing it the "right" way will save you if you just can't write a good story.

7
skooma714•

cough Crysis

4
coolhandmarie•

A lot of game developers re-task their designers as writers, and thus lose plot/story quality. This goes for endings too.

6
ReothecubeOP•

I would take a crappish ending over no ending at all. But a crappy ending is still a crappy ending

3
[deleted]•

The developers I work with are all very creative. An important part of design is being able to communicate well, and that very often translates into good writing.

1
KiddieFiddler•

Not me, I'm a total gameplay/mechanics whore. I guess I'm the only one.

6
NSNick•

No, me too. Story and graphics are just bonuses.

5
Tiny_Elvis•

On your second point, I love, LOVE the fact that the 'grand final boss battle' is slowly being scuttled. As long as you can sort of see the finale coming, and the ending doesn't seem too abrupt, I don't mind it. There's no need. In most FPS and action/adventure games, the mechanics are designed to fight a series of enemies - it seems silly when at the end of the game you have to change playing style and shoot some near-invincible, 50 foot-tall monster 100 times in the big toe.

6
ReothecubeOP•

I'm kind of tired of fighting the same enemies over and over and over again, I want something GRAND to face off to make me feel like I beat the damn game, not something that kind of gets a little harder than over. It doesn't need to be THAT epic, but still a change of pace to the ultimate enemy is something I rather enjoy, because you need to change your tactics. I often find myself doing the same thing over and over and over again when I play a lot of games, and my tactics rarely change after one or two stages, having a good final battle kind of changes that when there is an enemy I can't keep doing the same things with.

Like for example the last level in Fallout 3 (Which has enough problems as is), I was hoping to face off against something like Frank from Fallout 2. Instead, I'm greeted with a kind of drab and boring level with what feels like the same fights that were done earlier in the game, and no real epic fight comparatively.

4
cweaver•

Is it really that hard to pin another story in the same vein?

'pen' - as in write.

5
aricene•

What's worse: games anticipating their own (distant) sequels with a cliffhanger ending, or games that give you a "real" ending via DLC, a la Prince of Persia?

3
Kardlonoc•

Whats worse is the games that do end conclusively are the ones you want to see a sequel to, right after you beat them.

3
zboyet•

That is one thing I like about the Final Fantasy series. Each game ends and each game is its own self contained story but they all "feel" like a Final Fantasy game.

3
deliriumsfish•

yeah but can you honestly say that at the end of the credits for FFX you didn't get super excited when you say Tidus wake up and swim for the surface.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

2
APeacefulWarrior•

I place my foot so far up your ass that it supplants your dick.

Like your mom?

2
MyNameIsBruce•

Bend over and I'll like your mom.

0
Luvduky•

Are you saying that they shouldn't make more than three games under with the same story, like Arkham Asylum and it's sequel (Shitty example), or they shouldn't just make more than three games under the same name, like Final Fantasy?

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
Cepheid•

Final Fantasy is a pretty specialized example, their franchise is pretty much based on the whole "every game is a new universe" gimmick.

1
IHaveALargePenis•

What I also hate are the bizarre abrupt cliffhanger endings that basically leave you hanging and then a sequel never comes out. I hate you Dreamfall, I fucking hate you.

2
moopanda•

I still hold out hope for the episodic Dreamfall games coming out... what really burns are two series I loved as a kid... the Tex Murphy games and Freespace... tear

2
[deleted]•

XIII does that, too. At least we have the comics to read the rest of the story, though.

2
ScrubberDucky•

I like it when it actually follows through. But there's nothing like having a good climax and getting left hanging.

Remenices over Advent Rising, remembers the "To be Continued" screen like it was yesterday 5 years later, no sequel. :(

2
ReothecubeOP•

Hey, I'm still waiting for Psychonauts sequel, but that ended properly enough.

2
swartskaap•

Dead Space ended like that.....

1
zcerberusz•

To be fair Dead Space did conclude it's story arc(albeit while teasing a sequel), and finished with a fairly awesome boss fight.

3
lolinyerface•

Agreed. While I did feel like I was being moved through a mouse task maze, the story moved you along. The ending was well executed, and the plot twist wasn't something I was anticipating.

1
swartskaap•

ill agree that the boss fight was really shweet!

0
greenmojo•

What do you mean by games that don't end? As in, games like Oblivion where you can finish the main plot but still keep playing the game afterwards, or just about a poorly-executed cliffhanger?

1
ReothecubeOP•

Poorly executed cliffhangers.

10
space_island•

F.E.A.R. 2

Crysis

1
bobmeister258•

Halo 3.

-1
Yoshiler•

You must mean Halo 2. Halo 3's cliffhanger was not poorly executed. The game tied up the story of the Ark.

3
bobmeister258•

Eh, I was just pissed that they were all like "Finish the Fight!" and then the game had a cliffhanger. Wtf?

1
Hideous•

No, but I am sick of open worlds.

1
BreezyD•

I think it very much depends on the game. Some stories benefit from a defined ending, some are much more thought provoking if they allow the player's mind to ponder.

1
dfuentes•

No, but then again, I play lots of MMO's.

1
Gamefan•

I've recently started to hate video games in general. Game companies figured out that they can make more money if they design their games for the largest audience possible. Guess what that means? Boring, generic, reusable, never ending drivel.

Currently, the gaming market consists of rock-paper-scissors MMOs, games with lots of violence, and crappy remakes of the last games that made ANY profit. I wish I could design a video game. It may not make much money, but I guarantee it'd be better than 99% of the crap I've seen in the past few years.

1