No respect or recognition for Darshan on this sub

LoL

Anti Darshan fans pulling arguments and "facts" out the ass to scapegoat the team's subpar performance. As much as I like CLG as an org, at this rate I would be really happy if Darshan just straight up leaves CLG and proceeds to shit on them with another team. Just so I can see how members of this sub are going to interpret that.

Darshan has played so well for most of his career, even on the most unimpressive teams and he has never gotten credit or the respect he deserves. Name a single top laner that out performed him last split, and I'm talking IN GAME PERFORMANCE not some bullshit statistic or end game result.

Posted Jan 11, 2019, 9:00 PM UTC

20108
MlarcinVoiD•

name a single top laner that out performed him last split

Okay well...

not some bullshit statistic

What?

45
CounterInsanityCLG•

The guy is delusional. It's not just stats that back up the claim that he's been underperforming. You can watch and he doesn't pass the eye test either. But I highly doubt he's watched him.

Darshan is a cool guy. Very positive despite the fact that we circlejerk on this subreddit. But fact is he was one the most underperforming Tops last year. If you don't believe us, the motherfuckers who watched nearly all of his professional games in 2018, then go ask those other guys who've played against him in those games and even casted and analyzed his games. You know, the ones who get paid to do it.

24
MlarcinVoiD•

He's absolutely been a wonderful member of the team. He's put out wonderful content while still being an active member of the league roster. I vividly remember being ecstatic when the video announcing him and Scarra joining was released. And it makes me sad that he hasn't been able to stay on top of the competitive curve that top lane has seen over the years. I think it's safe to say that a lot of people here have enjoyed having him as the teams top laner for awhile. But that doesn't negate the fact that a lot of other top laners outperform him across the board now, and if he doesn't improve (which he's had a lot of time to do) then maybe the team should look for someone else.

1
[deleted]•

i agree til the last part, cause if you ask the best top laner in na lcs he will tell you that darshan is very good and he has learnt a lot from him, so at the end its all about opinions and results tbh.

0
Klaud9Biofrost•

Apparently, he or she is a law student, so the allergy to numbers is starting to make some sense.

2
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Okay so I'm going to dispel this myth of statistics being the most important or the only indicator of a player's performance. This is a game that has snowball built into the heart of the mechanics of it and top laners are often left to play tanks as Darshan has throughout the split. When your team is hard feeding early on, by the time you reach the mid game, you're going to get busted down as the main front line for the team. Which is also hilarious considering Darshan outright won his lane or at worst, went even in losing match ups.

It's crazy to think people say Flame is 10x better than Darshan and then point to bs statistics like KDA to justify that but when you actually look at the difference between them, it's literally 0.7. Impact's KDA difference is even less at 0.6 and these are guys who are supposedly LCS SMURF GODS.

-17
MlarcinVoiD•

Okay. So you're saying that this game has snowball built into "the heart of the mechanics of it" but don't explain that any further. Yes, top lane has traditionally been left to tank play, but this year we've seen a pretty wide diversity of playstyles that are viable in top lane, not just CC heavy meatwalls that build full tank.

When your team is hard feeding early on, by the time you reach the mid game, you're going to get busted down as the main front line for the team

Okay. So why is it then they CLG doesn't refocus their playstyle to let Darshan carry from top lane? According to you he outright won the lane or at worst went even in losing matchups. I'll be generous and say out of all the 7 champions he played in the summer split (Cho'Gath, Kennen, Mundo, Gragas, Darius, Ornn, Aatrox), 3 of them (Kennen, Darius, Aatrox) can arguably fit the role of not being strictly tanks and can deal damage. He had 4 games total on those champs, 1 with Kennen, 1 with Darius (his best performance the entire split), and 2 with Aatrox, and they only won 2 of their games. So the argument that he could carry if he was placed on the right champions to do so and the ones he's placed on are just tanks that can't do anything once the other lanes die once or twice means that he will at best help the team to win 50% of the time. Looking at the final results of the last season, a 50% win rate would have been an improvement over our 7-11 record.

It's crazy to think people say Flame is 10x better than Darshan

I mean no one has brought that up in this thread except you.

and then point to bs statistics like KDA to justify that but when you actually look at the difference between them, it's literally 0.7.

Okay you said earlier that stats were bullshit and that in game performance is the only thing that matters. You're completely forgetting/ignoring/missing that in game performance is directly responsible for statistics. How well one does in a game directly creates their own statistics. That's how that works.

And the fact that Flame's KDA is higher than Darshan's at all despite FlyQuest finishing 6-12 on the split, one spot below us goes to show that despite assumable similarly rough performances from his teammates, he managed to do better than Darshan. You pointing that out only makes the argument of Flame being better more sound.

12
GiveAQuackbigfatlp•

Ok Flame is definitely better than Darshan, but let's not pretend that KDA matters that much. KDA very highly favors risk aversion for example, and at the point we start contextualizing why their KDA difference matters, we might as well pick better arguments than "his KDA is better". KDA reliant analysis has been considered the dead end of League statistics for a huge stretch of time, it's just not worth talking about.

1
MlarcinVoiD•

I don't think it's a super valid statistic either, but I just used it based on OP's use of it.

3
Gamarisgood•

"OKAY" I'm impressed that everything in this comment chain starts with ok.

1
ConservativeCuuckOP•
  1. When CLG prioritizes Darshan the weaker lanes lose hard. This forces CLG to deprioritize Darshan but the problem isn't that he falls heavily behind, the problem is the other lanes / jg don't get the leads they were responsible for getting or they outright get outplayed. Depending on the split there are also differences in meta. In some metas the top laners literally don't do shit all game but the outcome of the game is dependent on the better adc or mid/jg dynamic. Again you're looking at games won and lost without putting any of it into context. When / where was the turning point in those games? When did CLG start losing and why?

  2. Its so easy to scapegoat players through stats without even looking at the causal factors for those stats. Poor stats doesn't mean bad player but bad player often times means poor stats. This whole idea of skill being directly responsible for stats is not universal. Supports die more and have worse kdas than other roles. Does that mean the majority of support players are shitters? No that is the nature of the role and / or meta. In the top lane if you're playing tanks but your team loses hard, you're going to get blown up when you try to frontline, engage or peel. Also top lane is an island, if your team loses map pressure you're basically getting hard fucked. That is the nature of the game / meta.

  3. That whole Flame argument doesn't even make sense. First of all, I was referencing the rhetoric behind Flame and other players considered far superior without any justification and second of all to even go by statistics like KDA you need to look at it relative to the league and the teams. What place did CLG place? What's Flame's teammates KDA compared to Darshan? Even damage percentages are misleading because they suggest a player is hard carrying when really they're just being facilitated or another player is being depriotized / relegated to playing things that don't do damage but take damage / play a supportive role.

0
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Lol so you just going to downvote me after taking the time to message you? You can disagree but if you're going to not offer any points then don't expect any more replies.

0
MlarcinVoiD•

Dude holy shit. I'm not sitting at my computer 24/7 waiting for someone to reply to my shit so I can keep arguing. I'll respond when I have the time.

4
NoNamedGuy•

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Darshan. The mechanics are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of bias most of the statistics will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Darshan's optimistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation

35
TLR34CLG Spinner•

i am really thinking into giving you a gold now

3
ConservativeCuuckOP•

nice meme

-5
RealshotggBiodaddy•

u/ConservativeCuuck with another dogshit post blindly defending darshan and claiming that all stats are bullshit

25
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Oh fuck off mate you don't know shit nor can you attack a single argument I've ever made.

-8
mrwragypantsBIG DIXXAY•

Your arguments are unforgettable. The Darshan‘ yasuo carried clg to a title is my favorite tbh

14
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Huh? That's an EXAMPLE not an argument. But nice try.

-6
mrwragypantsBIG DIXXAY•

Your argument is always the same bro: darshan=best top lane NA potentially world

12
RealshotggBiodaddy•

Your claims are totally generic and largely baseless.

6
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Which one? Explain.

1
RealshotggBiodaddy•

Darshan has played so well for most of his career, even on the most unimpressive teams and he has never gotten credit or the respect he deserves.

He gets credit when he plays well and gets bashed when he doesn't. The reason you think that this isn't the case because every single split CLG won their last title darshan is trash for half the split and good the other half (whether this happens at the start or end of the split is a coin flip). Of course people won't suck darshans cock when he hasn't been consistently top 3 for a long time.

Name a single top laner that out performed him last split, and I'm talking IN GAME PERFORMANCE not some bullshit statistic or end game result.

Mate.....are you kidding me with that. So you are seriously trying to say via this comment that there was not a single better performing top laner than darshan last split? Just this alone discredits anything you'll ever say.

12
johnnyboi1994DARSHAAN?•

We respect him, but his 2018 was not great

23
MarstonX•

Darshan deserves to be criticized. If you list off the best supports, Bio will be there. The best ADCs and Stixxay will be there.

And as much of a Huhi and Darshan fan that I am, you won't find those two in anyone's top 5 let alone 3. And that's worrying.

16
ConservativeCuuckOP•

But that's my point. Darshan deserves to be in the top 2-3 If not #1 for several reasons.

-4
MlarcinVoiD•

He understands your point. You're the one missing his. Analysts, experts, people who are paid to know the game and study it professionally, will not place Darshan in their top 3/5 based on his performance. He's not saying that people won't place him there because they're biased against him or they're not giving him the respect or recognition he deserves. He's saying that people won't place him there because he isn't as good as other top laners.

12
HeliotexZionSpartan•

Honestly, after Ssumday and Licorice and maybe Impact (who never has to be a carry on TL), all the other toplaners last Summer split were just in one big pile of players who can beat the other in a given match.

3
ConservativeCuuckOP•

You don't know if he understands my point. He didn't state or make any references to my point, he just said if I assume something to be true then that thing would be true, my point is that I do assume that to be true and here is why.

-1
OhJoshy•

You sound like a trump supporter

10
Gosuwolf•

Jesus you are literally mentally challenged. Darshan top 3 or #1 yeah right.

7
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Sick argument

0
thrwayyawrhtWiggily•

I mean, the org were looking for his replacement this offseason so they don't think any different from fans. They tried selling him to other teams too but they kept him because negotiations failed with other FA top laners.

My guess is that this upcoming spring split he'll have to prove himself or he's out.

11
Saffuran•

Darshan is one of the bottom tier top laners in the league these days. It just is what it is.

10
Matcas98CLG•

So in your mind Darshan has no blame in the team's failures last year? I get not blindly trusting stats but c'mon even when RO helped him out he couldn't translate those ressources most of the time. Also ssumday, impact, licorice, flame were all better than Darshan last split...

10
ConservativeCuuckOP•

I mean...did I say he has no faults? And can you explain to me why he couldn't translate those resources into wins? Or are you going to chalk it up to him simply being a shit Lord? And correction, *they had better teams.

-8
crow38CLG•

all i gotta say is.......LOL

6
SavberDarshaaan•

I'm talking IN GAME PERFORMANCE not some bullshit statistic or end game result.

I'm confused. So your measure of player's performance is not statistics or game results but on... what exactly? Feel-good moments? Losses? Fantasy points?

I like Darshan despite everything but please explain.

5
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Map pressure is one of the few things that matters. Someone could be 0/4/0 and still have more map pressure than someone who's 4/0/0.

0
SavberDarshaaan•

Do you have examples of Darshan utilizing map pressure better than the most LCS top laners do? He is a decent split-pusher sure but I don't see how that places him on par with other top laners like Impact and Ssumday who can flex from carry to tank to split pusher consistently.

Would you also say other factors play into it as well?

7
ConservativeCuuckOP•

I'll look for an example bc you're the first person to bother presenting a decent response. In league there are several things that matter, some are quantifiable like damage dealt / damage taken (depending on the game and champs played) others like map pressure and decision making / play making ability are not. In any case, stats only matter in relation to one another. For example, damage taken by a tank could indicate that a player front lined effectively but if they have a poor assist record / low KDA then it would suggest otherwise. Furthermore, no one is able to look at a list of statistics and say whether or not a player played great or poorly. Players could play dog shit but ks the entire game and boost their stats. You don't even need to go that far, LOL is a game that has a massive built in snowball mechanic compared to other games. For example Halo has a lower snowball mechanic than CSGO because Halo only really has limited power weapons / power ups and spawn killing opportunities versus CS leads which will lead to a higher economy to purchase significantly higher power weapons than your opponents for the entire of a fixed round (much more oppressive). By its very nature LoL snowball mechanics at a professional level is the most punishing with gold (economy), experience gained, and of course map pressure. Not to mention that league is a team game. When one teammate or lane is feeding, that has a spill over effect. This is a real long winded way of saying that Darshan is not as dog shit and people make him out to be. There are several players in poor performing teams that are absolutely rare talents - POE is another great example.

0
SavberDarshaaan•

A case can be made over the value of a low-econ top laner. Few would really dispute the benefit of these laners on a team. However, I think the essence of my question is what makes you think Darshan has that capability to be consistent despite having shitty teammates etc?

You said no BS stats. Ok fine. We'll ignore his meh laning for a bit. So what are we looking at instead? His last split didn't really have him starved on resources. We saw plenty of support being poured into top. He sometimes carried. Other times, he did not. Playing around him was always a gamble in comparison to other top laners like Impact and Ssumday.

PoE is a great example of a consistent player despite his Optic team being dogshit. He had some insane stats and strong plays throughout the last year.

So I'm guessing I'm ultimately asking: If PoE has his insane stats to back his quality despite being on a shit team, what is our measurement of Darshan if we're not looking at the win rates and statistics provided to us? I don't see him providing that top lane pressure that high tier top laners have otherwise provided.

He definitely did back in the ZionSpartan days where his Yasuo pick and his laning presence forced enemies to pour resources on top or even change draft because of him. Now? Darshan? I'm curious what examples you have of him equaling his past performances.

7
AbysmalScepter•

You are just as bad as the people acting like he's the worst top laner in the league, you're just on the complete other end of the spectrum.

Darshan has played so well for most of his career, even on the most unimpressive teams and he has never gotten credit or the respect he deserves.

REALLY? Because I remember in Summer S5 and Spring S6 he was almost universally lauded as the best or a top 2 top laner in NA. Same in S7 Summer. Most people even projected CLG to be a top team last year because of his performance in S7 Summer. He was putting up absolutely monster performances, and it was easy for everyone to see.

Name a single top laner that out performed him last split, and I'm talking IN GAME PERFORMANCE not some bullshit statistic or end game result.

Again, REALLY? You're saying not ONE top laner was better than him? It's just this sub's weird vendetta? Jatt went into last year saying CLG had the best solos in the league, guarantee he doesn't go out on that limb anymore. The consensus among most pros, Riot analysts and fans was that he was not very good last year. By what metric was he the best top laner?

5
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Huh? This post is directed to people who constantly shit on him. It's telling them to prove their claims with actual evidence and well reasoned arguments. Wtf are you going on about? You just jumped in mid way through

2
mrwragypantsBIG DIXXAY•

In game performance leads to statistics tho. Your confirmation bias can and will lead you to remember and see the performances he did well on, but ignore the rest, while statistics will capture an overall average of the performance. I think darshan is a mature voice to the team that can prove to be really important but I think his best form is in the past. I think if CLG used the approach liquid used last season of focusing bot and getting the adc ahead we could’ve won 3 more games each split, instead of spending resources on the top laner since he struggled to translate that to a W consistently. The whole team and coaching play a role there, but let’s not pretend he is theshy or bwipo. He was outlaned against many players and had less impact on the mid to late game when compared to other top laners.

4
TLR34CLG Spinner•

I propose an errand to support op's brain transplant.

On second thought he ain't worth it, better save an actual human being.

4
Ogma107•

So, are you his agent or his dad?

4
Unaufhaltbarr•

People doubting CLG?

Confirmed that CLG will be attending worlds. HYPE

3
FangliesPowerOfEvil•

you're getting a lot of hate, but hey, you'll definitely shut some people up if CLG starts the season off strong and darshan goes ham so we'll just wait and see. i'm about as passionate as you are tbh.

3
BeefyLemur•

He’s just the next scape goat people are preparing to blame. Now that Huhi is gone all the haters need to find someone new to blame.

3
ConservativeCuuckOP•

What doesn't even make sense are their arguments. Like even if you got by KDA Impact and Flame have 3.6 and 3.7 KDA versus Darshan at 3.0 KDA for Summer 2018. How is that meaningful in any sense?

I also agree with Huhi because I also defended him a lot to this community. They just don't get it.

3
places0•

I defend Darshans performance all the time against the blind sheeps. But I think at this point, this topic is moot. He's here to play, regardless of what the sheeps think, so let's see what happens this spring.

3
ConservativeCuuckOP•

Thank you

-1
sh0ebDarshaaan•

NA LCS Finals MVP you kids are talking about. Let's face it you wouldn't dare talk shit to Darshan at LAN ^_^

2
EMSEMS•

He was good in the golden age of 2015. He has to show up again to get recognition.

2