The Dating Secrets of Canadian and European Women
doublex.com/blog/xxfactor/dating-secrets-cana...Posted Jan 7, 2010, 8:33 PM UTC
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There's something to that. I've already started thinking about the implications of long term commitment to someone who I like but isn't going to be able to provide on par with me, my own living standard requirements, and what that means for the possibility of having kids in the future, given that having children can really put an ax in some careers.
Already talking about whether it wouldn't be a better idea to manage that child rearing among a few of the female friends rather than putting too much hope into men-folk coming into our lives that fulfill both the provider and the compatibility requirement. The idea there being that as friends for years we're probably more capable of creating a space for child rearing amongst ourselves than some random dudes are. Let the romantic relationships be all about compatibility, which is more fun for everyone.
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Interesting. Perhaps you can elaborate on your definition/idea/feelings about "compatibility" because they seem very different than mine.
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Someone who is compatible: someone who you get along with and like to have sex with.
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Provider: Someone who's lifestyle and income are stable and geared towards all those family-having, kid-rearing things.
The idea is that it's a lot easier to find number one than a number two who also fulfills number one.
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I swear I have never even remotely considered 2. Of course I want my children to have good living standards but I know that even if we were both unemployed parents for a period of time we could manage. Not only because there is unemployment insurance. Health care for children is free for children and very cheap for adults. Daycare is cheap. All parents (yes all!) even get child support that is enough to cover the child's basic needs. University education is free so no need to save up for college.
Social security does matter. At least for everyone who wasn't born rich.
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Comments from American women on this?
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it's an interesting take, would also curious to hear from american women. i lived and dated in the US for a while and found it very different from other places. dating felt like a well-planned game was in play, less spontaneous than i'm used to, and they felt an obligation to pay! a lot of guys were definitely commitment-phobes to the point where i had to spell it out very clearly that i was there temporarily so let's just have fun already!
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There's no obligation for a guy to pay outside the US?
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I can only speak for Sweden but here I'd say the normal thing is for women and men to pay for themselves or split the bill. Some women and men prefer more traditional arrangements where the man pays more but they are clearly a minority.
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One woman who wrote an article thinks Canadian and Euro women think they have better love lives because of socialized health care and bennies?
This is a pointless and poorly written article. It's speculation and opinion.
If there's any truth to American men being less willing to commit at a young age than Euros and Canadians, I would be more inclined to believe it's cultural. America is a very young country that's had a lot of adversity and social change (especially civil rights movement including feminist movement) over just a few generations. Every generation has had a different standard or culture for love, commitment and family. We're splintered right now. There is quite a trend of emphasis on the individual and not on beginning a family.... for some. I think it's fine to not be marriage minded and focus on your own life. There's nothing wrong with it.
Also, I tend to disagree with the guess that American men don't want to commit. I'm 33 and nearly every single man I meet is divorced. Ah ha! They are commiting at young ages.... and then perhaps waiting until they're 45 or so to try it again.
I understand that a lot of countries feel they have socialized health care bragging rights. Cool. Do your thang. I'm about 99% opposed to having socialized health care in the US. It's my opinion that the smart thing for the gov to do would simply be to regulate the medical, insurance, and pharm industries so they can no longer rob us of our choices and our money. Just creating some laws to govern the outrageously inflated retail, services and things of that nature. This would make health care affordable and available to the middle class. The rich can always afford medical and we already socialize everything for the poor, disabled, and frankly, often times the lazy and irresponsible. Lots of people who don't really need assistance receive it and I'm forced to pay to help subsidize them. Us middle classers are going broke over it.
Honestly, now that I've ranted a little, it seems that the best thing I could do is get married. Have a second income in my home. Have him sign me on to his private company insurance policy or vice versa. Have the security of each others life insurance policies, pensions, 401K, private investments and social security to fall back on. Plus, we'll take awesome romantic vacations with the marriage tax break we get. And then if he falls terminally ill when we're old and grey, I can help chose what kind of treatment or therapy would best suit my beloved instead of the government. There is already too much gov in my life.
Anyways, I don't know what it's like to date in another country. I simply think that the concept of men being more willing to marry because of gov security is a bizarre thought. There are loads of benefits to being married in the U.S. Go from Baby Boomers to Gen X and beyond... I'd guess if there's any fact to what she speculates, it's probably due to people adjusting to massive social change here. (But seriously, a thirty-something man who's never been married isn't easy to find. Not a science based statement either... just saying.)
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I don't think her point was specifically about the men - but that people in that environment don't have as much pressure. As you say, marriage has lots of benefits here, a feeling of security being one of them. If there is less pressure economically then people can relax a bit more and focus on things beyond making sure they don't go broke. That changes their perspectives, which could easily change their attitudes about love and marriage.
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Interesting read. I'm Canadian myself and was recently dating a guy in the US. It is a bit different, he really did seem to have some kind of agenda and at one point said he doesn't really date anyone unless he sees some kind of chance of marriage potential. I'm sure not all Americans are like this, but that was just my one experience.
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I'm sure not all Americans are like this
No they're not. That guy is smart. Why date a person if you don't want to find out if their going to be in your future long term.
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There's definitely a cultural component as well. There's huge pressure from parents, friends, random strangers to pair off - which has to do with both financial stability and 'family values'. But no, not all Americans are like that.
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This is propaganda for socialism and health care reform.
However I'd date Gabriel Aubry. Didn't know he was French. Now I must figure out a way to get this Halle chick out of the picture. (Speaking of picture what's up with that skirt she's wearing?)
However I can attest that most Canadians make good boyfriends.
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That's odd because on average American men and women marry at comparable ages to those in Europe and Canada.
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Personally people in some parts of the U.S. don't know how to network with the right people.
They rely on dating sites to find the loves of their lives.
Yep.
Women's opinions get discounted yet we are the ones with the girl friends to introduce to men. Most men are not interested as it takes to long.
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I've always at least been able to get dates through friend networks. I thought this was pretty common except among old people and nerds who tend to be more socially isolated and lacking the appropriate networks.
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Yeah what better way to get a date but through friends.
You know their not a criminal, paying child support on three kids with different babies mamas, not drunks, gamblers or what have you.
The one and only (and last) time I met a guy through a dating site we had definite chemistry and talked on the phone a lot. We hung out a few times. That was it. I never even held his hand or kissed and I'm thankful for that!
One day he decided to let the skeletons out of the closet. He told me the story about his ex wife who was being charged with larceny, and how she had run up thousands of dollars on credit card bills (that he would sheepishly pay off each month) that he now had to pay. And he had a severe gambling problem.
How does one let this happen? How do you let a wife run up like five thousand dollars plus in credit card charges for bullshit and then just pay it off for her?
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How does one let this happen?
Well, that particular guy sounds like some kind of co-dependent doormat, which does happen in men as well as women.
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Well, that particular guy sounds like some kind of co-dependent doormat
The conclusion I had was that I was not a co-dependent doormat and had better not get in the habit of online dating!
Yucky!
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Socialized healthcare = men that like commitment?
This is the DUMBEST article I've ever read in my entire life. Having lived in both Europe and the US, I can definitely tell you that this is not the case.
The reason that European men and women treat romance differently than in the US basically boils down to this... people are used to being with other people. In America, everyone is so distanced and reserved that relationships take on a near-hostile standoffish flavor.
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I've had the opposite problem. I'm a girl and the last few guys I've dated wanted to get married and have kids and buy a house and have me meet their parents.
Really, I don't give a shit about meeting parents or family because shit, the likelyhood of me marrying them is low, parents don't like me anyways because I smoke too much, drink too much and am a complete under achiever.
I also don't give a shit about going on dates, if i wanted a romantic dinner I sure as shit wouldn't go with someone I'm dating because that's not really the kind of person I'm into.
I rather be able to hang out with someone and so my thing, and have them do their thing with the knowledge they are not fucking anyone else, and they enjoy my company without having them be all "I love you" all the time, and talking about all kinds of major commitments.
For fucks sake I can barely take care of myself, I don't have the means or the motive to buy a house where I live, or be stable in life for many years.
Seriously, I kind of just wanna get laid and have unlimited cuddling.
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I disagree. I think women are ring crazy and men are waiting until they're 40 to get married because of our society. I know one could argue that the economy is part of our society, but the media and entertainment industry plays a big part of Americans' molding.
Little girls are read fairytales. Children play with Barbie and Ken. Teens and young adults watch romantic comedies. All these scenarios end with the elusive "Prince Charming" defeating all odds and proposing to the princess with a 2.17 carat diamond (with very few inclusions). Damn. Even Big realized the error of his ways and went to Paris to get Carrie, then again with the poetry when he left her at the alter. That just doesn't happen in real life. Twice.
I'm not cynical enough to think that being blissfully in love cannot happen, but these pieces of entertainment set women up for failure by falsely stating that "happily ever after" can only come in so many packages. You can't just be in a relationship; you have to be engaged. You can't just live together; you have to be married. You can't just be married; you have to have a baby. "Happily ever after" is not a cookie cutter idea that people are designed to fit. Not a lot of Americans (at least the ones I know) don't understand this. This leads to people making commitments before they're ready, which leads to slightly insane women lamenting about being single forever and men vowing never to get married.
Men aren't afraid of women who want to get married. They're afraid of women who want to get married now.
You were spot on with every single point. I'd add that for many men marriage ends up just being a poor business decision.
If it goes south for any reason, including infidelity or disinterest from your wife you are going to lose > 25% of your salary to child support and alimony. In addition you will almost never get equal custody of your kids and will be treated like a wallet rather than an important part of their childhood.
What you said is true - but it's no less true in Canada and Europe. We have very similar cultures when it comes to barbies, fairytales, and rom coms.
I've been reading and watching a lot of the pieces that are cropping up about the difference in social benefits. I think the author has a strong point. When I think of what I could do/professional risks I could take if I had healthcare that wasn't dependent on my job and no school debt it's depressing.
Men in America are kept in perpetual boyhood. You work for the man then you go play video games. People should check out a book called The Two Income Trap.
If more movies in the U.S. had ending like French cinema.
My up-vote button stopped working. I can't up-vote this anymore than I already have. :(