r/coys•
JavaSoCool

Dele and Son need to make more of Kane playmaking ability

Analysis

Since there's a bit of a lul in the Spurs schedule and we're doing so well without Kane, I was watching a bit of Kane highlights to remind myself what the difference was.

Kane's ability on the ball is utterly bonkers, the strength, the vision for long and medium range passes, his crossing is one of the best in the league IMO. Coming in deep, controlling the ball and launching a peach of through ball as he does his usual impression of Bambi... so good.

However, the one thing I always found in common in so many of these plays was that Dele or Son often miscontrolled the ball and wasted the chance. One example was the FA Cup game against Swansea last season where Kane came on and launched a perfect cross from almost the half way line and Dele fucked it up and just about managed to get it in (no assist registered for Kane). Not easy chances, but a lot of these passes deserved a goal. Dele in particular has missed some sitters.

The difference I noticed with Llorente is that he doesn't really do that, he stays high and does mostly knock downs or short passes in and around the box and Son has been relatively more successful in finishing those chances.

When Dele and Kane come back I hope they can work on this, because if Dele and Son get a bit more clinical at finishing those Kane crosses (like Dele did against Arse) we could go from outsiders to front runners in the title races in future.

As a side note, we need more of Dele at the back post like last season and the one before.

Posted Feb 17, 2019, 2:25 PM UTC

033
COYS1989•

I have to disagree, Llorente has to play knockdowns and little short passes in and around the box purely because he can’t do what Kane can in terms of coming deep and linking up play. The goal you’re referring too against Swansea, Alli nowhere near nearly fucked it up, it was a decent enough first touch, he had to take it early as defenders were covering allowing the keeper to make a save and then you could argue his quick mind and ability allowed him to finish the rebound? All footballers miss sitters (see Aguero vs Chelsea last week) does it make him any less clinical? No. Both Sonny and Alli have incredible finishing ability with or without Kane assisting them.

29
taylorrible:finale-04: Alderweireld•

Agreed. I appreciate what the OP was trying to do here in terms of what can be improved within the squad but it feels odd to “target” Dele and Sonny for this. Especially Sonny, who has arguably kept us afloat in the league since coming back from the Asian Cup and has imo gone from a pretty good finisher to a really great one. Like you said, everyone misses sitters/clear cut chances. Kane /himself/ has missed several this season, as have Lucas, Lamela and Eriksen. And that’s maybe not “ideal” but it’s fine. It’s all part of the game.

16
JavaSoCoolOP•

Everyone here seems to be interpreting this criticism of a very specific and singular aspect of our attack as me calling them all shit.

Admittedly my timing is poor given the recent results, and yes Son has been critical in us getting some very laboured victories, but over the last two years there is a consistent pattern of him and Dele failing to execute runs like the ones I mentioned.

Hopefully when Kane and Dele and back this is something we can improve on. There's a lot of good goals to be had there.

-5
taylorrible:finale-04: Alderweireld•

I don’t think you’re calling them shit, to be fair, and I don’t think you’re insulting or attacking them in any way either. I’ve seen your comments before and you seem fond of Sonny, anyway. But to call them wasteful when one is one of the best forwards in Europe and the other a prolific goal scoring mf (well, Dele maybe not so much this season for a variety of reasons) is an odd choice, IMO.

The timing like you said is probably a big part of why everyone is reacting negatively to your post, as well as the lack of statistical proof beyond the eye test that comes from watching highlight videos. Especially when Kane /also/ miscontrols passes, gives the ball away, misses 1v1s and sometimes doesn’t square the ball to unmarked teammates*. I noticed in your reply to someone else below that you brought up how Son and Dele’s issues with receiving long balls are hurting Kane’s stats in terms of assists (he has 6, btw, not 4–unless you are focusing only on the pl, anyway); the same argument can be made for our other three attacking players when they pass the ball to Kane and Kane doesn’t score, but I don’t see this being brought up.

I get that you’re trying to say we should exploit Kane’s long range passing and I agree. But I don’t think it’s right to call any of our players wasteful simply because a highlights video gives the impression that they are. I’m sure that if I went on YouTube right now and searched “Harry Kane is shit” a bunch of compilation videos that focus on all the times he’s missed clear cut chances would show up and make him look bad.

FWIW, while I appreciate that Kane is a fine playmaker, I much rather he focused on /scoring/. As excellent as Sonny is, there’s no one else in the club I trust more than Kane in front of goal.

*To be clear, I don’t really mind that he can be selfish with the ball. He’s a striker and that’s what strikers do, and it’s his responsibility more than anyone else’s to ensure the ball ends up in the back of the net, sooo.

3
JavaSoCoolOP•

call them wasteful

They're not wasteful in general, but with these specific long balls from Kane, they are. These chances are not easy but at the same time they should do better than they are.

Assists for our other players aren't brought up because Kane is generally finishing all types of chances well, except for those that require a lot of pace, like whipped in crosses that are out of his range but would be reachable for someone like Son or Salah. I do agree that Kane can be a bit selfish, hence his assists generally come from longer balls where he doesn't have too much of a chance of scoring.

I also agree with you on the last point, Kane should be the goal scorer, not playmaker, I want to go back to the old Kane up front with Dele making late runs into the back post to get on the end Eriksen crosses.

And yes, also to your point about selfishness, I like that unlike some teams we don't try to walk it in all the time, its good to take shots when the opportunity presents itself.

-1
JavaSoCoolOP•

Llorente has to play knockdowns and little short passes in and around the box purely because he can’t do what Kane can in terms of coming deep and linking up play

That is pretty much my point.

As for your other point that everyone misses sitters, note that I didn't say they weren't allowed to miss a few. The point is that they miss too many. Also note that I didn't say they were all sitters, many of them require a lot of skill to execute, but again, they should be succeeding more than they are at the moment.

No one expects Dele to be as clinical as Kane, but right up until Kane and Dele were injured, these specific plays were some of our best scoring chances, and we've consistently missed them.

-13
strongsmash•

This post is in early contention for “worst post” in 2019. You singled out one instance that dele or son miscontrolled the ball that lead to a failure of an attack. This kind of stuff happens all the time, and even best players in the world like ronaldo and messi can have a misfit here and there. I can rememeber numerous times where kane himself fails to control the ball, or has too heay of a touch and gives up the ball. Unless you can find statistical evidence that dele or son has some abnormally high amount of ball loss rate (which i know son doesnt, since i did a detailed analysis of his ball retention rate in the past but idk for dele) you are talking out of selective memory. From your comment history, it seems like you are incredibly harsh to every spurs player except for kane lol. Hope you know you can satisfy your fanboyism without putting down other players on the squad, who have not lost a game in the league without harry.

To me , this just seems like a random and unwarranted personal attack on son and dele. Ofc every player can improve at any given time and strive to do so.. but attacking son’s finishing rate (who i believe is literally the best wing forward finisher and stats back it up pretty well) or dele’s ball rention, which is one of the things he does well.

19
JavaSoCoolOP•

singled out one instance

Gave one instance as an example among many over the last two seasons.

Dele has been great playing deeper and marking players like Jorginho or as a defensive cover for Rose/Davies when the opposition attack down that flank, or before as almost a second striker at the back post.

However, he and Son have both wasted a lot of decent passes from Kane.

Take the United or PSV games as examples. In both PSV games Dele missed clear cut chances, in the United game both he and Kane took very poor shots which were really not very far from the keeper.

-9
strongsmash•

Okay i thought your post couldn’t get worst until you compared alli to ... jorginho? Jorginho has one goal in over 2500 minutes in the pl without an assist. He created 2 big chances in 25 games and you compare him to dele who is an incredibly attacking minded player who sometimes even plays in cf position. I feel like you are literally trolling at this point or something. A player on our squad that is playing jorginho role is winks, not alli.. its not even close. It seems like you don’t watch spurs game at all and you watch highlights of kane or something. Jesus christ get the post off the sub mate

Again, give me statistical proof except talking out of your ass and your selective memory from “Harry Kane highlights • perfect striker • dribbling • shooting • passes • 2018”

11
gongman18•

Didn’t even compare to Jorginho but okay

2
strongsmash•

Read the entire thread, i admitted i was wrong and said so.

5
JavaSoCoolOP•

Are you mental? How am I even comparing him to Jorginho. You know what. Fuck the lot of you. I made a sincere post without insulting any of the players, just a simple criticism and all you wanker jumping on me like I'm saying Dele is as shit as that sideways pass merchant.

I always though this sub was a bit dim, but clearly its dumber than I thought.

-6
strongsmash•

You DID attack and insult other players by calling son and dele wasteful? Everyone wastes chances so i asked you to GIVE ME STATISTICAL PROOF that son and dele wastes more than a top european footballer because i know they DONT. Again, for the third time, you are talking out of your selective memory that you watched from HIGHLIGHTS. You understand why that’s a problem? Stop acting like a victim mate lol you did this to yourself with this shit post. You could’ve said son or dele can do better with finishing or ball rentiontion; instead, you said they are literally WASTEFUL

Edit: nevermind about jourginho because thateas my mistake. I read your post wrong but i’ll still leave it up for the fluidity or someone else reading the posts. However, my other points still stand

10
COYS1989•

Aren’t we just simply criticising you and your post?

8
mvandrovec:finale-coys: COYS•

I’ve never understood the amount of downvoted on this sub myself. It’s especially shitty for those of us who aren’t from the UK and are relatively new supporters who want to be a part of the community/club in a way that’s deeper than the standard “COYS!”

I don’t necessarily agree with your post but you gave it a go and it’s certainly not bad enough to have received the reaction some of these mouth breathers have given it. Don’t let it bug you. One day you’ll get 20 downvoted for a comment like yours but had you posted it a week later it’s likely that everyone would be sucking your balls like you’re the new Sissoko...

0†
tjumper78•

wow. neither is our best player and theyre both way better finishers than the majority of the best players on many (if not most) teams. i dont know how you can ask for more, especially to sonny. lol crazy!!

3
[deleted]•

Well said!

6
IAMJesusAMAA•

I like your perspective, I may not necessarily agree but I don't understand why there's so much backlash over your post haha.

-2