Ken Livingstone: It’s not antisemitic to hate Jews of Israel
jpost.com/Diaspora/Antisemitism/Former-Mayor-...
jpost.comPosted Mar 31, 2019, 1:01 PM UTC
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jpost.com'It's not racist to hate black immigrants. I'm fine with black people in Africa.' makes about as much sense as this! (and yes, I heard statements like this when I still worked for a medical charity...)
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This would be more like he liked Blacks in London but disliked African Blacks for their socially conservative views.
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I once talked to a donor that calmly explained that he wasn't racist and certainly didn't hate 'the blacks'. He just wanted them to stay where 'they belonged'. Which was apparently why he donated money to the charity I worked for (Sponsoring access to medical supplies).
As long as you don't hate the whole race / ethncitiy / culture? you're apparently not racist.
It's fine to hate a people based on where they live.
Just for daring to be Jewish (or black? Muslim?) whilst living in Israel (the UK? Germany? The US?) and not for their actions, statements, politics. Just because of their ethnicity and nationality/place of residence.
Which is why I have to respectfully disagree with your statment. Livingston made it clearly about their place of residence/nationality and ethnicity and not about something less racist like them being socially conservative.
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Except you have it precisely backward. And you’re doing it deliberately to fit a square peg in a round hole rather than putting Livingstone in the equally loathsome hole be deserves.
He’s totally fine with blacks being in his backyard as long as they are not retrograde in his eyes, and in Livingstone’s case he also hates white dudes like himself for having these same kinds of views he dislikes in other groups. So it’s scarcely a racial animus.
Think of him as a nutty zealot rather than a racist. He sees Israel as transgressive and sinful to his worldview.
What makes you a racist is hating groups for inherent qualities and necessitates singling out. Which he does not since he is willing to cast aspersions wildly.
To be quite honest, the fact I have to point out Livingstone is also nasty toward his own for the same “crimes” is why I find this so tedious.
Made more tedious by my posting being suddenly throttled. How odd.
He is probably a hypocrite when it comes to Islam but most progressives think the narrative that Islam is unenlightened is far right propaganda anyway, he and the Labour party need their votes, and also Islam pisses off the people he really detests. So there’s that.
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Why can't he be a nutty zealot and a racist? The fact that he is leftwing and generally pro minorities doesn't mean he can't be antisemitic.
It seems to me like his hatred for the 'sinful Israel' is what may have made (insert:) 'him' say and believe that it is not racist to hate nearly 50% of the world's Jewish population for nothing but their nationality...
Which seems clearly antisemitic to me. I'm not saying that you have to agree with me (obviously) but it really does seem fairly obvious to me.
Politicians like that also make antisemitism more mainstream and acceptable which is a bit of a problem as well... The fact that there are more antisemites than Jewish people in the UK makes his rhetoric even more concerning.
I don't understand what you mean with your posting getting throttled.
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Also not acceptable. Its one thing to dislike people who hold certain views. But if you hate all Africans because some of them - or even many of them - hold socially conservative views, you're a racist.
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The Israeli government is so extreme that even AIPAC has condemned one of the coalition members, so you really have to go the extra mile to come across as clearly antisemitic when criticizing it. By recycling white supremacist rhetoric, Livingstone went like ten extra miles.
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Livingston is antisemitic. Corbynites and co seem to be fine with it. But there are are way more antisemites in the UK than Jews... So that might explain it.
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Livingston is antisemitic
Yup. It's just insane seeing the so-called left abandoning rational criticism of Israeli politics and going all Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
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When trump is doing something dumb its very clear to redditors that not all americans are like that even though hw got elected democratically, but when Netanyahu is doing sometging dumb, all israelis are horrible people because of it
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WTF...
It's one thing to say Israelis are misguided, or politically brainwashed, or struggling with militarism and ultranationalism, but to outright say that it's okay to hate people because of the country they were born in when they likely couldn't get a visa to emigrate to your own...
That's antisemitism, mate.
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While some speak anti-Semitic some act , in Belarus ,where i live , some vandals recently have defiled jewish memorial in kurapaty, and i didn't see any reaction from abroad or even news about this, maybe its because of the language barrier , i tried to find this information on English speaking resourses but i failed. I know that in comparison to the recent news about anti-Semitic events its not something huge but still its really bad
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You're right, I haven't heard of it.
Our local newspaper reported that someone sprayed heaps of swastikas and 'allahu akbar' slogans on middle school / high school (?) in my home country...
but I actually don't think that the Livingston issue was a lot of news in Switzerland either. The vast majority of Swiss citizens probably haven't heard of it...
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???? Isn't it antisemitic to hate Jews just because they're Jews period?
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This belongs in the politics thread
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It actually is not, that’s true. I mean Ken Livingstone is a total softie for every minority group, it is unlikely he just so happens to dislike one out of race hate.
But of course he phrases it stupidly.
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You're kidding, right? Ken Livingstone has a long history of antisemitism. He was even suspended for it. He also vehemently denies Jewish self-determination.
http://fathomjournal.org/ken-livingstone-and-the-myth-of-zionist-collaboration-with-the-nazis/
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He also says nasty shit about his fellow white guys for having views he considers backward. That is always is neglected in this conversation.
Heard it all. He’s trash but a different kind of trash.
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Pick one.
Im confused. Did you go through this persons history?
It was a poorly formulated travel ban on countries that were either failed states (ie Syria, Yemen, partially Iraq which was later removed etc) or countries with hostile governments (ie Iran, North Korea, Venezuelan government affiliated people). If It was a ban on immigration from Muslim countries it would have included Egypt (Worlds largest Arab country, and a ally), all the gulf countries (All our allies), Indonesia (Worlds largest muslim country), and a bunch of African Muslim majority countries. It clearly didn't include any of those countries, so I don't think one could call it a Muslim ban unless your just doing it for political brownie points on either side.
Also, its discriminatory to hate 50% of anyone, Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Buddhist etc for any reason.
What I was trying to say is that the people most likely to agree with Livingstone's statements are pretty much the same people who would characterize the travel ban as a Muslim ban. Regardless of whether it was or wasn't, if you believe targeting 10% of worldwide Muslims is anti-Muslim but that targeting 50% of worldwide Jews isn't anti-Jewish, you have a double standard against Jews.
District Court Judge Derrick Watson
I can tell you from personal experience that if you post this comparison on any of the major news/politics subreddits, it drops like a rock to negative double digits.