Source
r/Alienware•
Ap5p

15 R3 shenanigans

Technical Support

Hi.I want to start by saying that in the last couple of weeks I've been fiddling with this laptop almost 24/7 to the point I want to just close my eyes and never open them ever again. Probably won't ever buy another laptop, this is my first and hopefully the last; feels like I got myself into a fancy glorified bear trap.

Now after I cried a little, here's the story.Bought it 6 months ago to take with me to another country to study (I render stuff) and play games (hyped for Borderlands 3), got suspicious like after a couple of months or so (just due to not using the laptop too much previously), seemed like it was underperforming and felt quite hot.

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First things first, specs:

  • OS: Windows 10
  • CPU: Intel Core i7-7700HQ Kaby Lake, 2800 MHz (default), 3800 MHz (boost)
  • GPU: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1060 6 gb, 1911 MHz (default?), operates on 1404 MHz, never seen it boost to 1670 though
  • MB: IDA154, BIOS 1.6.0
  • RAM: Hyundai Electronics 8 gb single stick DDR4 (17-17-17-39), default frequency seems to change ~2394.84 MHz
  • Storage: Samsung SSD PM871b M.2 2280 128 gb NTFS, HDD HGST HTS721010A9E630 1 tb NTFS
  • anything else I forgot?

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Temps could reach 95 C under load (idle was ~60 C) which meant throttling so I repasted it, couple of times, opened it up like 15 times, okay. Initially I was following the Iunlock guide to generally understand what to do and that's right, I was attempting to repaste it with Conductonaut. It partially worked after numerous failed attempts because the damn heatsink barely touches the CPU die and the margins are so miniscule that a single layer of duct tape on the sides of it goes pretty much to the same level as the die. On top of that, the bolts for the heatsink are made of shit and are easily stripped (seriously DELL, the toughest tension bolts are the smallest and the flimsiest in the whole unit?). Overall, the heatsink was pretty much hanging just enough on top of the CPU that only with a puddle of liquid metal on top it would connect. Temps with Conductonaut never exceeded 70 C on load (~43 idle). It was nice, except the fact that it is a laptop that gets carried around sideways in a bag a lot and there is a puddle of liquid metal inside of it and no way to properly insulate the surrounding area because again, no margin for any duct tape or sponge (which i already cut into 1.5 mm pieces and that turned out too much. No, seriously, couldn't you lift the die at least 2.5 mm up from the plating, DELL? Is it to hard to make posts a little lower than the die so the heatsink could rest on it with a little tension? mfg). So after a lot of fiddling with the metal paste I decided to get rid of it and use Kryonaut just to be safe (yeah, kms, I know). Temps with Kryonaut are about 75 C max in-game and around 45 C idle (right now as I type this poem). I said fuck it, left it as it is (I confess, I lifted up the heatsink after I put the pea of paste on the dies to check if it spread evenly. Speculate about air bubbles, yeah, but it was still wet because I haven't fire up the thing yet, temps are fine so I don't bother).

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Benchmarks:

  • Novabench: 1996 (873 CPU - 61 percentile, 853 GPU - 64th percentile, 130 fps Direct3D11, 198 RAM, 86 disk)
  • 3DMark Time Spy: 3826 (GPU 3837 - 24.84 and 22.13 fps; CPU 3766 - 12.65 fps) - better than 35% (ouch)
  • 3DMark Sky Diver: 24 112 (GPU 37933 - 169.85 and 176.71 fps; Phys 9230 - 8 threads 148.71 fps, 24 - 92.31, 48 - 54.52, 96 - 31; Combined - 18350, 75.52 fps) - better than 77% (?)
  • Unigine Heaven Basic: 3077, fps 9.2 - 122.2 - 223.6 (Direct3D11, 1920x1080 fullscreen, Quality - High, Tessellation -Disabled)
  • Unigine Heaven Extreme: 1964, fps 8.8 - 78 - 171.7 (Direct3D11, 1600x900 8xAA windowed)
  • If you need any other results I will be more than happy to provide.

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Also, a quick question, here are the graphs, bet you can see where benchmarks are run - maximum core frequency drops on high CPU utilization, is that normal?

I also undervolted to -0.120 in XTU, runs stable I guess. Power plan is set to performance, default GPU is Nvidia, CPU is in Performance mode (BIOS), Windows 10 is optimized (SSD tweaks, disabled telemetry, update OS from laptop is set to off etc etc). I am plugged in at all times. What else?..

but,

I still feel like it can do better, because the framerates drop and it feels wrong. Like in Borderlands 2 I get around 110 fps, avg 63, but it sometimes stutters and drops to 32-ish. Maybe the hardware is faulty, I really don't know. I am not an expert and require assistance, what do you think? I can probably overclock a bit, temperatures seemingly allow that.

Enthusiasts, please, you know better than me, I am barely into this stuff and even that is just because of urgency.

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HELP

thanks <3

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Posted Apr 1, 2019, 7:28 PM UTC · edited

743
OverHeatingAlienware•

Probably a software issue since the machine is running cool.

Did you update Windows before this all happened? It usually screws up my performance whenever there is a big update (fuck you Creators Update!).

What you could do is go into Alienware Command Center -> AlienAdrenaline -> Performance Monitoring -> Real Time Performance Monitoring -> Start Recording

Look for any drops in CPU clocks while running XTU stress test.

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Ap5pOP•

How not updating Windows affects the performance? Like the machine knows there is something to be updated and starts to slow down a bit to enforce it lol? I am just afraid of Windows updates, they keep moving setting options, removing and rephrasing buttons so it gets progressively hard to follow guides on how to turn of Windows Defender notifications for exaple. And I don't even know what gets updated with these ever.

I use XTU in pair with CAM constantly. One records the graphs that I later analyze, the other displays live load, temps, fps etc so I kinda benchmark while playing to keep track of things.

CPU clock = frequency right? That stays around 3.44 - 3.50 GHz jumping a little there and back in idle. This screenshot https://i.imgur.com/4Qym8pK.png and I am interested about those valleys on the orange line. That was happening while benchmarking with Time Spy - CPU utilization and the temperature rises and the clock speed goes down, is that usual or not? because it looks like passive cooling even though I have set it to active in the battery plan ( turn on the fans before slowing down the cpu). And throttling doesn't occur with that at all, it's like a separate thing!

0
OverHeatingAlienware•

CPU clock is frequency, yes :)

I'm not exactly sure how but months ago, my performance tanked by 10-20fps in some games from an update.

About the graph, there's a sign something isn't right just by looking at the blue and orange lines, especially the blue, that's drastic. They should be nearly straight with a few tiny dips... You sure that all the cores are running cool? This tells me that maybe 1 or 2 are running really hot.

Just ran XTU stress on my 6700HQ and these are my results: https://imgur.com/a/39379QQ

You can see the variations in the blue/orange lines before being under load and after being under load (they are perfectly straight at CPU utilization 100% and Frequency at max turbo 3.09 - 3.1 GHz).

I'll test Time Spy now and post results.

Have you tried turning off CPU performance mode?

EDIT: After running Time Spy, my orange line is wavy but in a straight line with the blue colored line being all over the place but to a much lesser extent than your graph.

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1
Ap5pOP•

Turning off performance mode for CPU, well, reduces performance, fps get lower. Cores are not too hot, maximum is on core 0 - 72 C from running Time Spy, others are 66, 68 and 64. Even though it reads as a difference in 8 C, those are only the peak temperatures that happen 1% of time, average temperature is stable on all cores so that shouldn't be the reason. I don't know why CPU jumps from 0% utilization to 100% like a maniac, but it's obvious that it's all related to that: utilization jumps out of nowhere really fast bringing up the temperatures with it. Then the frequency drops as a protection measure I bet, because the sensors read exponential increase in everything. That is also why different software give different temperatures I believe, because it tries to predict where it is going and interpolates the values to give a heads up on what's gonna happen next.

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AwesomeShizzlesAlienware 17R4•

I absolutely say no to bending the heatsink but other people have other ideas. Also, it sounds like you need a new heatsink or at least thinner pads. Also, check for motherboard vr throttling in xtu, and in hwinfo where theres a cpu perf cap reason and like 20 parameters

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Ap5pOP•

I bent the leaves (is that what they're called, the thin metal parts with screw holes?) up a bit so the heatsink could get a little tesion towards the CPU, and after I removed all insulation prepared for liquid metal it sat there just good enough I think. It is still a lost potential because it could get a better cooling solution, but oh well. Pads are thin enough, I followed the guide i mentioned and replaced a couple of them for thinner ones.

Throttling does not occur at all, it was eliminated by repasting.

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AwesomeShizzlesAlienware 17R4•

Theres some sort of throttling because the clock drops near max usage. My best guess is motherboard vr throttling

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Ap5pOP•

I now have realized that it did not show VR throttling line on the graph. I did just run another Time Spy benchmark to recreate the situation and no VR throttling does not occur - here are the graphs from XTU. But it does look strange doesn't it? And I don't know what causes it

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AwesomeShizzlesAlienware 17R4•

Can you please provide the graphics in higher quality

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wargh_gmr•

You need dual channel RAM! OwnOrDisown on YouTube shows a few videos why this is so. Also, to add to the pressure from the heat sinks to the chips bend the spring arms a touch and torque carefully, like lugnuts, to keep it from squirting out the side. I have the 1070 R3 and it is running beautifully after a basic repaste. Ultra 1080p60 on the GSync monitor for Division 2 with temps in the mid 80s, no undervolt!

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Ap5pOP•

RAM - absolutely; I did in fact bend the arms, yes, and there was a little spill of the paste when I applied it, I know because I lifted the heatsink after I put a pea of paste to see it it connected lol so I removed the spill carefully also (at least I believe and hope so). But a little spill wouldn't matter much anyway would it? Like 2 mm of paste to the side. I guess one could argue that it diminishes the cooling capabilities, but only for a tiny fraction. I once stumbled upon a test with paste where op tried fiddling with the paste just after application and he even tried putting a fingerprint and a hair on top of it and the difference was only like 5 C under load, iddle didn't even change.

About GSync also, I believe my monitor supports that. Does framerate drop because of it? DELL reccomends turning it off as if it affects performance negatively, does it? I mean it's basically another word for Vsync, you get less tearing, but it is demanding. Did you test the options, what's better for framerate?

2
omega44xtM15•

Get another stick of 8GB RAM & check your 1% lows in games. Dual channel helps, about ~10% on average, but about 20% improvements to 1% lows (so lesser fps drops). There are several youtube videos showing diff. in performance of single vs dual channel RAM in games.

Just an example: https://youtu.be/ogJK4iOQ6Jo?t=110

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Resetting the OS might help if it still isn't functioning well. 90C+ for Alienwares is the norm, I own a m15 & after undervolting, limiting boost frequency & raising the back of the laptop, the temps are under 80C (with rare spikes over it).

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Ap5pOP•

I don't see any issues with temperatures, it hardly exceeds 70's, so it doesn't throttle. I was thinking about another stick, and I am aware that 2x8 gb is better than 1x16 gb for example, it's just quite expensive, RAM prices skyrocketed. I will absolutely buy one when (and if) it gets cheaper.

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omega44xtM15•

I was just stating about the out of the box thermals, with paste your temps are definitely cool for a laptop.

RAM prices have dropped a lot now with 8GB going for as low as $36 on sale. Usually it's $40-50.

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Ap5pOP•

But I need the same exact stick right not to care about the timings and all the crap? I checked it just yesterday and it varies $70-100, if it's a drop from previous prices then oh golly I guess it's time for me to go be a prostitute for a while or something.

And raising the back is a must, of course! I experience drops of 5 C just because of that. Though I've heard that cooling pads are not worth the money, doesn't a little more cool air help at all I wonder?

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omega44xtM15•

I never had problems with matching the timings etc. All I check are the DDR type & frequency. It has worked for me till now, last mismatch I had was in DDR1 days. You can return it if it doesn't work, it's easy nowadays.

I don't know where you are checking those prices. Amazon has higher prices usually yet I bought a 8GB DDR4 2666MHz RAM about 2 weeks ago for $48.

Cooling pad might reduce temps by another 1-2C over just raising the back.

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funnystorytalker•

So if you paste using liquid metal, you take risks of it being spread out when you carry it around? Is this confirmed?

1
Ap5pOP•

Absolutely, it doesn't get dry and if you put too much like I had to because of bad contact, the surface tension will not be enough to hold it in place, especially carrying sideways with some amount of shock. It needs impenetrable insulation so if it spills it would not run away and short but it's hard to accomplish because of too little space between the sink and CPU. Also this metal forms a permanent alloy on copper that you won't be able to remove (even though it's not mentioned anywhere), so I generally don't think it's a good idea, certainly not on a laptop.

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funnystorytalker•

Good to know thanks.

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JukeJutsu•

Wow yeah, I just did the same with my r4 15. I ended up repasting my 8750h and 1070 with liquid metal (conductonaut) on the cpu die and kryonaut on the gpu. I think I opened my laptop and repasted over 10 times lol until I was happy. I did take plenty of precautions and used both super 33 electrical temp and a silicon barrier around the cpu die to protect from spillage. I move the laptop a lot and I felt I needed to be sure I protected the vital areas. I also used a the 0.5mm copper shim on both GPU and CPU die and temps are lovely.

Undervolted GPU with MSI afterburner Gpu @0.962v (voltage Locked)1757mhz

Cpu -150mv core and -140mv cache with throttle stop

Cinebench score of 1220-1240

cores 1-6 are less than 70c after 15 consecutive runs

-Division 2 benchmark. ( my most intensive game I play)

Average FPS 116 on high/ultra and temps do not exceed 76c after about 10 runs consecutively

Gamed for 4 hours and temps remained the same as the benchmark.

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Ap5pOP•

die - paste - shim - paste - sink? Is it to lift the area to provide a better fit? Not the most effective way to achieve it probably, as the shim will conduct heat, but I see it works so I wouldn't bother. I don't know how, but I get better temps with Kryonaut than with Conductonaut and it is safer. Apparently still didn't solve all of my issues, but the temps on CPU/GPU are not of concern anymore. Now it's the thermal pads I guess.

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OverHeatingAlienware•

Shims could screw everything up. Once those VRMs start overheating, it's game over. Which is exactly what can happen if the shim is too thick and the heatsink makes no contact with the VRMs.

Also, try repasting again without lifting up and then putting the heatsink back on. Those air bubbles could be the culprit.

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Ap5pOP•

But I am idling at 35 C currently and CPU/GPU temps are well within 70 C range under load, how can it be affected by bubbles even if they are present? If I didn't have a problem with CPU underclocking for no apparent reason I would just stay where I'm at and be happy, but something's wrong obviously. The only reason I could think of is indeed VRM, but the contact should be fine as there is nothing between the sink and mobo (like scotch or shim) except for paste and pads which should have settled. Strange indeed

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OverHeatingAlienware•

Here is a video explaining what a thermal pad (similar to what size a shim would be) could do: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv31eT7wlns

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Yeah, I'm almost out of ideas at this point without going extremely in depth.

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