Source
r/seduction•
throway

Stay out of both TwoXChromosomes and MensRights to help your game

Both r/TwoXChromosomes and r/MensRights traffic in mentalities that are not conducive to your game as aspiring PUAs.

2X tells you that women are goddesses, men should apologize for being men, and that hitting on a girl without her approval in writing is tantamount to rape. You probably knew this already, but avoid these sorts.

MensRights tells you that you should eschew differences between the sexes in exchange for political "equality" and social androgyny. MensRights inhabitants are the opposite of alpha males - constantly complaining that they have to pay child support or railing against 'society' for assuming that they're pedophiles (never mind the fact that male pedophiles are simply statistically more prevalent than female pedophiles for the same reason that more males than females inhabit outlying regions in, well, everything)

Posted Mar 2, 2010, 8:13 PM UTC

2232
jowblob•

Read it all. Get multiple viewpoints. Don't stick to one way of thinking or one school of thought. Let other ideas enter and leave. Don't reject, don't grip too tight, don't be prematurely defensive. Keep an open mind, but make sure you are always discerning (and not judging).

30
impotent_rage•

The problem with this as it applies to game, is, that what women want is very different from what they think they want. For example, if you ask a woman, she'll probably tell you that she likes sincere compliments from guys. But if you try to use this to flirt with women, you come across as desperate and needy and having less value than the woman, you come across like you want or need something from her, which will turn her off.

2x has value, but not when it comes to getting advice on how to flirt. Women don't know what they really respond to. They will give you advice based on how things "should" be or what seems fair or right to them, not based on what really works.

6
jowblob•

Well stated. Couldn't agree more. Be discerning.

1
academician•

Both subreddits have their problems, but I do find 2XC to be far less problematic than MensRights. The MRA guys are typically paranoid misogynists, which of course is completely antithetical to good pickup skills. 2XC, on the other hand, sometimes has some very interesting discussions from female perspectives, and it's not such a monoculture - I've seen a decent variety of opinions represented there, not just (or even primarily) the ones you list. Granted, it's not essential to seduction - since most women don't actually know what seduces them (or won't admit it) - but I don't think it's harmful if you take it for what it is.

12
rustoof•

I think this deserves more attention. Misogyny is 100% anti-thetical to good game.

3
rmbarnes•

You'd be surprised...

2
rustoof•

No i wouldn't. Believe me most of the women in 2X would call me a misogynist. I think women are silly illogical creatures who will happily be dominated and led like sheep and love you for it.

But you can't hate them. That's what misogyny is, hating women. Now, I can spout whatever shit i want on the internet. I can tell women in real life that they're silly and illogical and would be better off letting me decide things for them.

but, you have to love them. You have to love them for the happiness they bring into your life, and respect them for that. Women will pick up on a man who hates them for what they are from a mile away. But a man who knows what they are... well you'd be surprised...

3
rmbarnes•

I think you're right. You've used the 100% correct dictionary definition of misogyny. Most people these days consider men who sleep with loads of woman, or who dominate women in a relationship or who even just want an old fashioned type of relationship with a woman a misogynist. This is obviously an incorrect definition.

4
ymrhawk•

I'm sure many of the men in MRA actually went the through shit they say they went through so I don't really see a reason to just chalk it up as paranoia. Lets be frank, if someone actually experienced many of the things that makes one a hard core men's right activits or a militant feminist then having good game is low on the priority lists.

With that said, misgony in the PUA community is very real. Its not required for good game but having too much respect and putting it on a pedastal is what everyone with zero game does.

2
academician•

I don't doubt that many of the MRA guys have been through shitty situations, but it becomes paranoia. Women experience many similar forms of systemic discrimination without becoming rabidly misandrist, so I can't really forgive the misogyny.

Arguably and counterintuitively, in feminist theory, putting women on a pedestal is just another manifestation of misogyny. True equality and feminism mean recognizing women simply as the fellow human beings that they are, not as either goddesses or exploiters of men. IMO, that is both the most moral and effective frame to approach game from.

1
Horatio__Caine•

I would add r/relationship_advice, for multiple reasons.

7
psykocrime•

I actually like that subreddit. Some of the stories are amusing to read, it's a great place to troll, and I like being (one of the) only voice(s) sending the whiny guys posting "How, oh how do I meet a girl?" to this subreddit and the seduction community.

5
[deleted]•

I subscribed there because it had some funny shit at first, but the more I see new stories the more I want to fuckin slap these people. It's nothing but whining and some of the stupidest questions (which are all answered with minimal common fucking sense) I've ever seen.

0
[deleted]•

2X tells you that women are goddesses, men should apologize for being men, and that hitting on a girl without her approval in writing is tantamount to rape. You probably knew this already, but avoid these sorts.

Just curious, can you link to an instance where these claims are founded, because im pretty sure i'v never actually seen this.

But I do agree overall. avoiding the male/female specific subreddits are probably a positive thing for any serious PUA.

6
Horatio__Caine•

(Well, apart from the idiocy of this being one of the top threads of all time on 2X....)

Here, HFCF laments how guys degrade women by hitting on them.

Here, we go on the offensive against learning how to pick up women in general. I see you tried to make the reasoned argument. Good work, but still.

1
[deleted]•

(Well, apart from the idiocy of this being one of the top threads of all time on 2X....)

Oh come off it. You don't think gender stereotypes exist in different jobs for men and women? I'v heard a lot of woes from lady programmers specifically on reddit, so I don't see why it should be stupid when some girl wants to feel good about herself for doing something that she and other girls in her field are often put down for. It's like a stay at home dad saying "SUCK IT, I RAISE MY KIDS WELL" after dealing with a ton of people offline saying that he is some lazy bum and couldn't possibly rise kids as well as his wife could have. That shit does happen.

Now for the pick up. The sad truth is that a lot of women (the girls on XX included) just don't get it. They don't realize that people can use pick up for positive intentions. I think when the seduction community comes up, the first thing that my fellow XXers think is "Barney Stinson", but I have yet to see a large group of them equate it with rape. Just dishonestly.

More on XX and the pick up community.

I attempted to curb those rumors here

http://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/b0zkw/alright_ladies_im_getting_a_little_sick_of_the/

I got some support, but the truth is, nobody wants to feel stupid. Even though I think a lot of the women in XX understood what I was saying, they didn't want to believe it because they hate the idea of not having the power in a "pick up" situation. The same is true with men I think. No guy wants to feel like some girl is getting her hooks in him. We all like to feel powerful. That doesn't mean their ignorance is okay, but it's certainly understandable. More importantly, this does not really meet the gross exaggeration of XXers that was painted in the OP..which seems to paint the girls there as a bunch of feminazis that want to take away fantasy football and will call the police of a guy so much as talks to them at a bar.

7
Horatio__Caine•

Oh come off it. You don't think gender stereotypes exist in different jobs for men and women? I'v heard a lot of woes from lady programmers specifically on reddit, so I don't see why it should be stupid when some girl wants to feel good about herself for doing something that she and other girls in her field are often put down for.

I'm a female coder. I think the thread is borderline retarded. What does the OP want, a cookie for her A+? Maybe it's just because I am a female programmer that I don't have any sympathy for those who claim to experience such woe in the field. Your code works, your proofs flow, you get an A. CS is a pretty objective field as far as such things go. The entire thread is a circlejerk of the highest order. And then you have comments like this that just leave me dumfounded.

I'd make fun of a guy who said "Suck it, I got an A in Home Ec" as well. (And yeah, that's one of the reason I think MensRights is godawful.)

I agree with everything you said on PUA stuff though.

6
[deleted]•

I'm a female coder. I think the thread is borderline retarded. What does the OP want, a cookie for her A+? Maybe it's just because I am a female programmer that I don't have any sympathy for those who claim to experience such woe in the field. Your code works, your proofs flow, you get an A. CS is a pretty objective field as far as such things go. The entire thread is a circlejerk of the highest order. And then you have comments like this that just leave me dumfounded.

Yeah, I didn't care about it either, but some people really like that reenforcement from their peers. I just didn't find it terribly atrocious.

3
[deleted]•

your proofs flow

Who uses proofs outside of college? Honestly, the business world is all about expectation and politics. That's where most people meat their 'woe'. That said, in college while you can get an A by simply being good... you can still be terribly unhappy if your fellow students refuse to recognize you as good, or (in group work) give you a chance to succeed.

1
[deleted]•

Here, HFCF laments how guys degrade women by hitting on them.

If you narrow your selection to confident guys and PUAs, you'll think that all guys are swauve and sweet when they go after a girl. But think about it, the vast majority of times lady is hit on is by someone she's going to say no to. From that point of view, many men are degrading in their flirting attempts, or stupid, or weak willed.

To be fair, a lot of guys are like this and only pick up their girlfriends on their "good days".

0
rustoof•

True, a good PUA will never get labeled a creep by his target.

1
ih8registrations•

Maybe you were trying to say something, but what you wrote is ridiculous, aka if girls going to say no = many men are degrading in attempting flirting, making your position this SNL skit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBVuAGFcGKY

0
lachumproyale1210•

love how saydrah's comments essentially amount to a basic pickup regimen

-1
st_austin•

Wasn't that whole Saydrah bullshit linked to 2XC? Was she a mod? I don't care to look it up, but if that's so, another reason to suspect the mentality over there.

3
academician•

Not really relevant IMO. She was active in 2XC and went there to try to get sympathy, but no one gave it to her. I actually feel really bad for her, though, and the whole thing got blown way out of proportion. How would you like weird angry redditors calling your family to complain about you?

11
Captainfidget•

How would you like weird angry redditors calling your family to complain about you?

That is beyond fucked. I didn't follow the Saydrah drama much, and to know this happened is really disturbing.

5
st_austin•

I wouldn't like it all. I haven't been following it though, as I'm really just subscribing to some of the smaller subreddits.

0
rmbarnes•

MensRights tells you that you should eschew differences between the sexes in exchange for political "equality" and social androgyny.

No, there is a clear split down the middle between MR people that believe this, and MR people that believe in a return to more traditional gender roles (this is what I believe).

MensRights inhabitants are the opposite of alpha males - constantly complaining that they have to pay child support or railing against 'society' for assuming that they're pedophiles

This is just a shaming tactic. Men's rights are routinely trampled over by western governments. Men are told, "Take it like a man". Those who do "take it like a man" are weak willed betas.

3
[deleted]•

Agreed. I stay out of both now.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
diggcalledtheymissu•

It isn't the case. Even if 80% of child molesters are male it doesn't mean that all men should be treated as child molesters.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
diggcalledtheymissu•

I was replying to your "but if that is the case"

1
mynewname•

Dude, there are some good openers to be found there.

1
ohstrangeone•

Completely agree. I was subscribed to both at one time (MR a lot longer than 2X) and unsubscribed from both quite a while ago for the reasons you mentioned. They're toxic, both of them, stay the fuck away.

0
thephotoman•

Correction: r/MensRights is a bunch of 30-something boys who still live in their mothers' basements and believe that everything with a vagina is out to get them.

It should be men advocating for their part in gender equality (equitable custody arrangements, a rethinking of alimony systems, fixing uneven sentences for male and female pedophiles, and decrying the "man = pedophile/rapist/inherently physically violent/buffoon" mentality that has arisen in recent years), but it isn't. I joined it because I thought it was, left it because it was just dudes bawing.

In any case, you're right that they're not alpha males. They're omega males.

On the other hand, 2X seems to be more of a Reddit Women Support Group, where men are welcome but highly unlikely to be comfortable. I've never seen a "Women are goddesses" post there, but then I don't hang out there much (not being a woman, after all).

-2