I got banned from 2xchromosomes for daring to agree with someone that said MtF transsexuals are not women. (See the 'offensive' post in comments)
Posted Mar 9, 2010, 3:05 AM UTC
0155
MtF transsexuals are individuals who were once male, but they have since become female.
30
I don't think that's actually possible. They may become "women," by having their penises removed and taking hormones to make "breasts" grow, but they'll never be female.
-21
you're an idiot- read a book.
13
Wow, snappy comeback, asshole. Can you recommend a good starter text that will explain how male chromosomes can be transmuted into female chromosomes? Because until thats possible, all this Halliween dress up PC crap is only skin deep. Call yourself whatever you want, but a human born biologically male us incapable of being "changed" into a biological female, no matter what you want to believe.
-2
If you would study gender and look at all the facts you'd see it differently. But hey, why bother being educated on any subject before having an opinion.
or you caw swallow your pride, grow as human being, stop being a mouth breather, and learn something new...
here's an interesting doc about sex and gender - it's in ten parts
5
I'd argue that sex is immutable as it's based on your gonads [ovaries versus testis].
Whereas gender [how we view people and how they view themselves] is the mutable portion of a person.
3
They have become female impersonators. A female has a uterus, ovaries, the right combination of chemicals and a few other important things unrelated to how they 'feel'.
-36
So, if a woman has a hysterectomy, she's no longer female?
28
No she's still a woman, and a man who is castrated is still a man. A person who has a gender identity in opposition to birth gender should be referred to as either a trans-woman or a trans-man not as the sex he or she identifies with.
-10
Once a woman, always a woman. You can't fuck around with your chromosomes. There are a lot of penisless or testicle free men out there as well, still men. Everyone knows exactly where I stand on the issue. My point is that the issue is irrelevant. We should be having his conversation in the same thread that got censored for getting sand in someones false vagina.
-24
What's your stand on people with Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome?
http://www.aissg.org/22_CAIS.HTM
Summary: They're born looking externally like girls, including externally female reproductive organs, grow up identifying as girls, develop breasts and hips like girls, find out (usually in their late teens, because they are not menstruating yet) that they are chromosomally XY and do not have a female reproductive system.
Female or Male?
9
[deleted]
1
I linked to the reason I got banned, it was 1 comment in response to an idiotic comment that got deleted after I posted.
-8
[deleted]
18
Citing Wikipedia as an authoritative source no more persuasive than citing Mad Libs.
-9
[deleted]
15
I've read and for the purpose of this thread it's completely irrelevant.
But since you like links, http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/woman .
Specifically,
1 a : an adult female person
I don't give a shit how 'gender' is defined. A woman is an adult female to me and by definition, gender identity be damned.
-20
[deleted]
15
it's because you're an asshole that doesn't know shit about gender.
21
[deleted]
0
Irrelevant either way.
-8
Why is this in r/funny?
Isn't there a reddit for controversies or scandals?
17
We need a r/melodrama
24
http://www.reddit.com/r/melodrama
Warning: I will ban anyone that doesn't subscribe to my newsletter.
-16
You should repost your topic in the Melodrama subreddit, then give them a dose of their own medicine when they come to complain.
-8
Meh, I wouldn't ban people for having their own thoughts.
-5
No idea but I found it funny.
What I find even funnier is that there seems to be a secret transsexual network here that are now downvoting everything in this thread they disagree with. L O Fucking L
-17
Couldn't possibly be that you're being a big dick about this and people just don't like your attitude?
20
Nah, I'm almost always what people consider a 'dick'. It has not been a problem until this single comment. I was not banned for any followup discussion, the post I linked to is what got me banned.
This one.
-12
You mean the post where you're being a complete tool? Uh, yeah. Is there a reason you're doing this, other than the attention?
21
I can't tell if you're being a troll or if you really believe this.
I'm not going to argue anything with you because you probably don't understand what MtF transgender people go through. You know something through experience, not because of personal belief. You believe we aren't women? Fine, that's your opinion. Nothing I or anybody here says is going to change your mind (from the look of your comments above).
You're not looking for a debate; you want to be right even if you're wrong.
17
I'm not arguing the merits of my post here, I'm stating that I got banned for a comment someone disagreed with. It's retarded.
The only time I've argued a position is in response to someone else.
-8
From the look of it (and I did check the thread with the mod explaining why you were banned), you didn't go about this in a respectful way. There's really nothing to argue about here anyway. You should drop it. It's the Internet.
5
The explanation is equally retarded.
"If somebody, in a forum which prided itself on inclusivity, wrote a post about how "Black people who bleach their skin will always be black", I sure as hell expect it (and any supporting replies) would be banned, because it's at best irrelevant, and at worst discriminatory."
My reply wasn't banned, I was kicked from the entire subreddit. Not only that, I replied to a specific post about that specific topic and it wasn't malicious.
The person that banned me is an idiot, this moron taking their back is an idiot and they can all kiss my ass in regards to it.
No biggie otherwise.
Edit: My 'supporting reply' was a direct response to someone that make a retarded ass analogy. You can't see it now because it was removed. I was doing exactly what I do on reddit every single day, I clicked on a thread and posted a reply to a comment I felt like replying to.
No matter what anyone has to say about it booting people out of a subreddit because you disagree with them is fucking retarded. I did not harass, make fun of, discriminate against or otherwise blight anyone. I responded to a single thought from a single person and had no idea of their sex / age or any other information when doing so. I have a few thousand comments here, that's what people on reddit do.
-4
Hey I'm not the one you should be arguing with or convincing. I really don't care.
4
So, dipshit, are women with AIS female?
11
No, they're just fucked up.
-17
You prefer a definition of "woman" that doesn't appear to agree with what a significant group of people on Reddit choose to adopt. I am with a lot of the people in this thread, and feel that gender with respect to identity--and in general--is more sociocultural than anatomical. Is it so objectionable to think that "gender" and "sex" can be independent concepts?
At any rate, I'm not sure what you did warranted being banned. I don't like censorship. So, to clarify, you feel that people who are "biologically female at birth" are women and no one else is? In this case, male-to-female transsexuals are simply that, and are distinctly different than "women"? Also, how do intersexed children fit in?
I ask not for purposes of rhetoric. I'm not trying to be a dick--I simply would like to hear what you think. As long as you're consistent and non-offensive, I don't think there is much of a problem. It looks like you might be in trouble with some of the people on Reddit satisfying that second requirement: non-offensiveness. I'm still listening.
11
Damn Whitey, reddit fuckin set your ass straight on this one dawg!
8
Male and female are biological facts. Man and woman are social constructs.
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[deleted]
1
Pathetic.
4
Y'know, W4O, I like you, and we share some common views, but this is quibbling over semantics, and you just picked the wrong place and time. 2XC is not the place to stand on dictionary definitions. That's like arguing for MMJ in a Texas police station.
That said, I think MtF pre-op transwomen are hot!
4
Just a heads up, as a transsexual woman, calling me a shemale is just about the fastest possible way to get ignored.
12
I know, I'm sorry. I try to stay out of reddits where my fetish offends people. I can't help the way I feel, but I can try not to antagonize women who are transitioning.
Again, my apologies.
2
It's not the fetish that's offensive, it's the term! I wouldn't recommend using the N word to describe your attractive to black women either :-P
10
It's not the fetish that's offensive
Well, I've been thoroughly excoriated on Reddit for my fetish in the past; it's nice to know not everyone feels that way.
I edited my earlier comment.
3
I didn't start a thread, I responded to an asinine post and got banned for it. It's silly and stupid and even the idiots in this thread are using my stance on the issue as justification for a ban.
I was 'bashing' the transsexuals. NOT.
-5
I'm not agreeing with them. You are technically correct. But you are ignoring both their feelings, and the audience to whom you were speaking, and that was a foolish thing to do, regardless of how right or wrong you might be.
3
[deleted]
1
i propose that the moderator of 2xchromosomes is in cahoots with an internet marketing company. this somehow vaguely ties in with the incentive behind your banning. let the witch hunt begin.
-6
Haha, perfect.
-13
dude, sorry to break it you but i think you may be subject to a downvoting brigade. now regardless of your banning or your opinion expressed in the initial comment, that is kind of lame. it's like the repercussions for breaking reddiquette just aren't deterring anymore.
-3
Oh, that's for sure. I'm pretty opinionated so this isn't the first time nor will it be the last. Also, someone posted this over at 2x (banned I'm sure) and I posted it in another sub. Not only do I have my everyday haters but now I have an entire other group slamming any comment. It happens with emotionally charged topics but hey, at least we can have a conversation about it here... in the 'funny' subreddit no less.
-5
These women might never be "female" biologically, but 'sex' and 'gender' have long since been recognised as two very different things.
Also I think you were banned because of the tone of your comments which are abrasive and aggressive, as opposed to just because of the content and your stating of views.... What do you think of that?
2
That's like saying people that think they are gangsters and wear baggy pants and bling are gangsters just because they think and dress the part. Sounds more like an abnormality in the mind than a gender issue.
-11
A response I made by private message that I feel is relevant.
Insistence to call trans-women men is disrespect to their experience and their perception of self. It is discrimination.
Voting for Obama evidently is not stopping you from discriminating against trans people. But, since Obama is not a transperson, nor did he campaign on trans-rights, I don't find that terribly surprising.
I made one fucking post and while I think it's retarded to actively censor conversation I think it is 1000 times worse than that to take what I said and twist it into discrimination. Obama is not a transperson. He is however a 'nigger' to just about every white person I know around here. My feelings on that subject are the same on this one. If Obama decided that he wasn't black I would call him a fucking idiot and mean it.
-13
So people that are in insane asylums that think they are unicorns are really unicorns because they think so? The mind is such a powerful thing.
-13
From +9 to 0 in no time. I wonder who's bugging their friends to come downvote. :)
-15
I know one thing, I have no vagina and neither does FluffyFrank.
-17
I agree. They're not.
-18
Regardless of me being right or wrong I was banned for making a comment. I understand that free speech does not cover private websites (or subsets of) but have always enjoyed reddit because I can say whatever I want. I was asked by a real reddit mod if I would tone it down a bit after I mentioned that I hoped someone died in a fire. I don't remember the subject but I meant it, they were worthless. Point was, the mod asked instead of demanding.
Anyhow, just be warned that you cannot speak your mind over at 2X. It is a great subreddit so I feel bad (for the sane people there) for posting this but at least everyone will have fair warning.
-17
To some people it's a hateful and bigoted comment. 2x has done a great job of keeping it feeling safe by a heavy hand in terms of moderaiton.
Good for them. You're an ass, and you deserved it.
edit: in every post in this thread, here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people
23
To some people it's a hateful and bigoted comment.
... and yet by any objective measure it's not hateful or bigoted, just honest.
-13
FTMs and MTFs and all kinds of genderqueer people face really fucked up bigotry and bullying because of asses like him and you. Piss off.
edit: here ya go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people
12
Howbout this: "I don't think black people are human." Replace black with whatever descriptive you want to. It is bigoted, regardless of whether it is said honestly.
I bet you are very young.
6
Someone's honest opinion can be hateful and bigoted. Some people are hateful and bigoted, and quite honest about it.
1
Thank you but they've effectively censored this thread as well. When you can't delete just downvote and make sure your friends do too. :)
-12
I am an epic asshole, that is for sure. I say exactly what is on my mind regardless of whose feelings might get hurt. For 99.9% of my time on reddit this has been perfectly acceptable (and still is in every sane sub). Censorship is never good, fuck them and fuck you for thinking anyone deserves to be banned for something so stupid.
-15
Cute appeal to censorship, but you basically went into an NAACP meeting in a Klan outfit.
Here's an idea. Since you're so butthurt already, how about you go fuck yourself.
edit: in every post in this thread, here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unlawfully_killed_transgender_people
14
Oh, I agree with you. Banning someone based on an expressed opinion is censorship of intellectual discourse. People who rely on censorship in these situations are generally stupid, insecure, or both.
-6
Welcome to TwoXChromosomes, the subreddit for female-oriented discussions both serious and silly.
Anyone who engages in misogyny, misandry, transphobia, or otherwise hateful or disrespectful commentary here will be banned. Everyone else, regardless of sex, gender, insides, outsides, or mindset is welcome.
Trust me. After reading the thread there was very little intelligent discussion in the entire thing.
If it had been approached from an intelligent conversation perspective the thread and those two probably would have stayed in 2xc.
Instead obvious trolls came a trolling and then decided to post here when one of them got banned. They came to a reddit that expressly says that there is no trans-bashing and started bashing transgendered people and then act shocked they were banned.
14
Why is it whenever someone says "trust me" the prudent course is the exact opposite?
Why should I trust you? Do I know you? Your username certainly doesn't make me want to take you seriously; nor does your rather dismissive claim that the OP is a troll and doesn't deserve to express an opinion persuade me to trust you.
-7
I'm not shocked at all, I wasn't trolling which is obvious if you read my comment history over two years and I just find it funny. It's ok to laugh, idiot.
PS, I didn't bash anyone. I stated that someone born with a dick is not a woman. If I said penis would you still call it bashing?
-11
they are penisless men...if they are women then i think women that wear strap ons should be considered men...and that in that instance you should be able to punch the shit out of them without any gender related charges...i dont agree with hitting women at all... but if a man without a penis is a woman...then a woman with a big rubber penis strapped to her is a man imo.
-18
Hey dipshits,
Can everyone see the conversations going on in this thread? This is exactly what reddit is good for and if the moronic cunt (hehe) that banned me wasn't a giant pussy (hehe x2) he would have engaged in debate right there where my original comment was.
This is one of those topics that not many are going to change their minds about but it's a fact that nobody will gain any insight into the 'other side' when the entire fucking conversation has been squashed.
If you are down with keeping things in a nice little bubble then good for you, it's retarded but it's your right.
-18
debating is out of the question... especially when they have a ban button. Its like giving a little kid a sucker and telling him not to eat it. They get excited at the chance to ban someone... which i dont really understand because all you have to do is make a new name.
-8
The problem is that there are two different definitions of female. One refers to biological characteristics, one refers to psychosocial characteristics. In your posts, you define people by their biology; thus, someone with XY chromosomes cannot become a woman. Other people define themselves and others by psychosocial characteristics. Thus, someone who feels like a woman and who acts in a womanly manner may accurately be considered a woman. If you do not believe me, I recommend you check the Oxford English Dictionary.
As for your being banned, I have absolutely no sympathy. The description of the subreddit clearly states, "Anyone who engages in misogyny, misandry, transphobia, or otherwise hateful or disrespectful commentary here will be banned. Everyone else, regardless of sex, gender, insides, outsides, or mindset is welcome." Whether or not you are transphobic, your post was incredibly rude. If you want people to respect you and your opinions, you might consider showing some respect.
You are welcome, so long as you participate in our little echo chamber of self-justification and mutual admiration.
If you don't agree with the subreddit's rules, why would you want to be there in the first place?
I've never been in there. This is Whitey4Obama's topic, and I don't really know why he'd wanted to be in there. You should ask him.
However, after witnessing the group's irrational responses to honest disagreement, I wouldn't step inside that subreddit if you paid me. Not because of the socio-political confrontation, but because I have no time for closed minds. The fact that many of them came into this topic with the sole purpose of squelching criticism instead of enlightening readers speaks volumes about the group's intellectual vitality and emotional maturity.
Tell that to the men that get tricked into any kind of relationship with a former man.
I don't have sympathy for myself so I'm not asking for any. I found it funny, will miss the good people over there and still think FluffyEstroWhore should die in a fire.
still think FluffyEstroWhore should die in a fire.
That's why you got banned. As for men who got tricked into relationships, I have yet to see any evidence that dishonesty in a trans/cis relationship is any more damaging than dishonesty in a cis/cis relationship.
No, it's not. Go read my comment, I was banned immediately after. I don't give a shit either way about transsexuals, I just don't call people born with male genitalia 'women'. I said he should die in a fire for banning me.
Edit: Not that I'd think anyone should get banned for saying anything they think.
You got banned for acting like an ass.