Source
r/SandersForPresident•
agent__orange

Don't understand Bernie's take on the fillibuster

First of all, I am a huge fan of Bernie's platform and in my opinion he is the only person who will have a chance at turning the US away from the dystopia route we are currently on.

But I have also taken a class on Congress and don't understand how he intends to pass any major legislation like M4A without getting rid of the filibuster. Even Dems win a Senate majority will be an uphill battle due to the built-in bias towards electing Republicans that results from most dems living in more dense areas.

Is Bernie simply saying this for now, so that Trump and the gang in the white house don't get any ideas, but staying open to changing it when he inevitably gets obstructed by the GOP? Or do you think he is waiting to see what comes from the Russia investigation, and if many GOP leaders are implicated, he might use that as a basis to change his opinion? Or do you think he has some other plan?

I understand that we'd be in a much more dangerous place if the Republicans didn't have that hurdle in their way now, but in my view, you could get rid of the fillibuster at the same time as drastically expanding voting rights and protections + making DC and PR states, which will naturally help make it so that republicans have a lot harder time gaining power again (until their platform matches the will of the American people).

Curious to hear any thoughts on this.

Posted Apr 8, 2019, 10:32 PM UTC

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SernyRanders•

He just said in his last townhall that he's for a fillibuster reform, I don't see how it's beneficial to officially campaign for it, it will only provoke Mitch McConell and the GOP.

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agent__orangeOP2016 Veteran - Day 1 Donor 🐦•

Ok, this gives me a bit of relief. I think it's probably tactical as well. I just don't see a route to getting these policies otherwise

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SernyRanders•

It's a concern troll by the Vox/Pod Save American crowd because Warren is throwing hail marys to save her campaign.

It's just bad politics to campaign for it with the GOP in power.

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packersfan101•

Warren has always been more about talk than passing policy. It’s why she has just taken to copying most of Bernie’s platform.

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timothy_lucas_jaegerWisconsin - 2016 Veteran - Day 1 Donor 🐦•

I think Bernie's take is something along the lines of "it's not the system so much that is broken than it is the moneyed interests influencing the system, which leads to the people not actually being represented."

Don't want to put too many words in anyone's mouth, but "Let's get a Congress that actually represents the people first, then see if that's working before we mess around too much with the rules that are in place."

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I'm not a fan of the filibuster personally, but i do think it's important to remember that it's roots are in the idea that the Senate is a place for reasoned debate. The filibuster is a tool that allows minority opinions the chance to be expressed, though i think that perhaps a new superior tool could be developed to that end, without some of the downsides of the filibuster (mainly the supermajority necessary to get anything done).

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Just to play devil's advocate a bit longer, here's a link to a book that supports the filibuster: https://books.google.com/books?id=4W_fWklB_GkC&pg=PA1#v=onepage&q&f=false

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The passage starting at the first full paragraph of page 7 down through page 9 has some interesting ideas, imho.

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agent__orangeOP2016 Veteran - Day 1 Donor 🐦•

I think Bernie's take is something along the lines of "it's not the system so much that is broken than it is the moneyed interests influencing the system, which leads to the people not actually being represented."

Don't want to put too many words in anyone's mouth, but "Let's get a Congress that actually represents the people first, then see if that's working before we mess around too much with the rules that are in place."

thanks for taking the time to respond, will check this out. I actually see the purpose of the filibuster, if our government were full of good-faith actors. But the republicans are clearly not, so in the short term, I am wondering how Bernie might deal with a clash of Senate tradition and the ability to pass the legislation we all need. Will check out those links

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Communism1919•

So the DCCC has slapped the bear. This means that the Senate will have a super majority of Democratic senators. That is how.

There is no better way to modulate people then telling them to pound sand. They will vote just to spite them.

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agent__orangeOP2016 Veteran - Day 1 Donor 🐦•

I don't understand your post, but there is no way that the Senate will have a super-majority of Dems unless something drastically changes (like every GOP senator being implicated in the Mueller report or something). Even then I don't know if it's numerically possible given the 2020 map

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EcoSocoDay 1 Donor 🐦•

Mass action. It will make no difference if we need 51 senators or 60 senators because we don't even have 25 senators supporting stuff like single payer. Might as well abolish the Senate altogether.

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MelGibsonDerpNew Jersey - Day 1 Donor 🐦•

Hey guys its fine to disagree with Bernie on stuff and still love him overall and want to vote for him over literally anyone.

I think his Filibuster take is dead wrong, I hope he changes it. That's not enough to dissuade me from his entire platform.

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kc2mfcNew York - 🚪 ✋•

The filibuster is one of those unwritten rules of the U.S. Senate. In order to pass any legislation, it must pass CLOTURE, which is a very fancy word for saying, the debate is over, let the voting begin. By invoking cloture, the Senate is ending the debate period of its deliberative process and moving on to the voting on the bill/nomination at hand. The Fillibuster is a work around this process, by which any senator can talk (or threaten to talk) thus procrastinating this cloture vote from ever taking place. This procedure has taken new heights with Senate Republicans by simply threatening the use of the filibuster, rather than simply talking, thus delaying/torpedoing needed legislation in the process. The only other exception to cloture (other than to filibuster) is to pass it during the budget process using a procedure known as RECONCILIATION. In reconciliation, only a simple majority (51 votes) is required to pass the bill, not the 3/5ths needed for cloture (or 60 votes). Bernie's plan for M4A would be to pass it under reconciliation. Bernie's reform plan for the filibuster would be to force Senators to actually talk rather than merely threaten the filibuster. Once the Senate got tired of hearing people talk and talk, cloture could then be invoked. Hope this helps!

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