[Dark Frontier] Tocas, Waystone Harvester
![[Dark Frontier] Tocas, Waystone Harvester](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/174021609475014656/573401353032957952/TocasWaystone_Harvester_Spoiler.png)
Posted May 2, 2019, 6:58 AM UTC
13391
Found the Hooru Midrange nerf.
Funny how twisting it makes it die to Vanquish as well. 4/3 is worst stat.
28
+ power on a solid statline is pretty appealing. You will sometimes twist and sometimes prefer the 4th health. The first line of text is strange. I guess it stops Finest Hour, Levitate, Mirror Image, Withstand, and some others. I think it stops Devour and Combust.
19
Shuts down a lot of sites is how I see it. And yes should stop stuff like combust or devour unless they madness this guy first.
Guess it would stop haunting scream as well now that I think of it.
10
Sort of. #1 the 3 drop has a lot of competition, #2 it's at best beating one mode of the relevant sites.
1
Withstand is by far the most powerful Agenda card on palace. Stopping Mirror Image on peaks is also useful, though it does die to Gun Down. Also stops Xenan Initiation on Temple (and Temple can't easily stop that; also restricts Scare), Viper's Bite and Refresh on units (but can go face) on Praxis Arcanum, Threaten on Office if Cut Ties is already used (meh).
1
Also the face aegis interaction is not obvious for me
3
It probably doesn't interact with face aegis at all. It is static, like Hooru Pacifier.
9
i like this one a lot. i love 3/4 for 3 units, and it has great typing and text. it will fit into a lot of different decks.
10
No Finest Hour. No Combust. A nice enough anti-aggro body (No twisting unless I'm desperate to get something huge on the board of course.) It's very interesting, and there must be many more spells (oh meditate for one) that it nullifies that you don't really remember till later.
2
Does this really stop combust? You don't play combust on your units, you only sacrifice your units.
2
Your targeting a unit for sacrifice may be interpreted as spell interaction on your unit.
We will have to see.
3
Would this stop Scream?
1
I assume not, also dark return should be fine.
3
Will this also prevent your opponent from playing spells on units in their hand, like Twinning Ritual ?
9
Courtesy of daysundoing on discord
7
I was on the right track! 😄
https://www.reddit.com/r/EternalCardGame/comments/bjqd79/dark_frontier_disassembled_spoiler/emacpcm
6
Play him in Time ramp with [[Praxis Arcanum]] and [[Refresh]] him.
Having 8 good cards that curve into any of Time's excellent 5 drops is pretty sweet too.
6
i like that idea a lot
1
Might be a companion to/replacement for [[amaran stinger]] in time decks
4
Not a replacement. They do completely different things.
10
If you want something to stall against aggro, this has a better stat line and advances your own game plan, as well as stopping the enemy from pumping their own units (especially relevant vs rakano). OTOH, stinger is decent at stalling vs aggro, but has much better effectiveness at holding big units at bay once scorpions pop up
3
Yeah it's more of a TJP contender to combat hooru deck and speed your own tempo forward with sites.
What i am wondering is if by proxy it also stop haunted and dark return.
2
But this guy does things that are better. He stops aggro's combat tricks and ramps you to HotV that you're obviously playing because you don't play time w/o HotV.
-2
Time and Praxis are not synonymous dude, pretty sure Elysian, Combrei, Temporal and Xenan don't run HoTV but I could be mistaken.
1
Those aren't good factions right now. That's the joke.
-4
Play on 3. If he survives 'til next turn you'll have at least 4, 5 if you have more power. Twist twice, becomes a 5/2 with +3 maximum power. Next turn you can have 8.
That is some deliciously greedy ramp.
4
I could see it in tjp mid-range.. play on 2 or 3, if you have influence for palace but are light on undepleted power you can test for torch then twist end of turn
1
NOOOO MY BLITZ DECKS
4
Just draw equivocate every time and you'll be ok.
5
Yeah that's a big WTF from me.
0
As a player who plays almost exclusively time based decks, I love this card.
Ramp Decent body Can be offense or defense depending on twist Hoser
I mean, this dude could be a 6/1 if necessary.
100% I will craft this day one, and it will see play.
2
This card is better when not twisted. More site hate, good defense against aggro. Solid all around.
2
This one to go with Corrupt. Noice!
1
Can we talk abot the art? It looks good but a guy with a broken arm it's not what I'd call a legendary art
1
Obviously he twisted his arm while digging for waystones.
7
So epic.
1
Anyone remember back when people were complaining about siraf?
this blows siraf out of the water
1
He races you to the finish line.
Siraf IS the finish line.
1
He's better than Siraf on turn 3 but worse once you reach 8 power. I could see Combrei running both as they're both premium 3 drops.
1
Well... he is only worse once you reach 8 power if you dont have other good things to do with that 8 power ;)
1
True I meant more that siraf becomes a win condition at that point whereas this is just a good stuff card, still a premium 3 drop that I'm going to have in almost every time deck, I only see tokens running Stinger over this and even then they might try to run this card as well anyway. Great card.
1
Yep, very strong!
1
This is the first safe craft of the bunch
1
Pristine Light tho
3
now watch me shift into MAXIMUM OVERRAMP
1
Can we... not make every answer to decks just "here's an OP legendary/rare that automatically shuts it down"?
1
so good.
1
Interesting. I like how a single Twist puts him in Torch range, there will be mindgames with this one.
it's really impressive that Torch is such an important card that it's the one that gets talked about when any unit is revealed.
Torch is meta defining and always was. If it were revealed today I'm pretty sure we would all shit our collective bricks.
If it was revealed today a lot of people would be pissed with them for making such a blatently overpowered card (rightfully, imo). It only works because it's been here having cards balanced around it since the beginning.
Honestly, if it hadn't been released prior to today, Fire as a faction would probably have been completely underpowered since the game's release. Losing Torch would hit Fire in a way that cripples their removal suite and lowers their effectiveness at face damage. So I think in an odd way that people might be willing to accept Torch in order to bring fire into the meta.
Although to counter my own point, I'm sure there would have been some Torch Lite in set one that would have taken over the role of Torch in Fire decks.
Torch is legitimately overpowered, it's just too useful. There really isn't a reason to not have it in every Fire deck (barring weird stuff like Diogo with Invoke as the only spell). It's the only card like this. The game has been balanced around it so it's not breaking the meta or anything, it just makes Fire decks have 4 fewer card slots.
Possibly, on the overpowered call. It is certainly a strong card. But, I still stand by the fact that every color does have at least 1 spell to deal with early units, which is a good thing. It's just true some options are better than others. Fire's option happens to fit Fire's theme of direct damage and be the most flexible of the options. Strong, but necessary.
Oh sure every faction should have ways to deal with early units. But none of the other ones has a card that you must run or you're trolling, like Torch. IMO there should never be a card like that, it reduces deck diversity. Fire decks basically have 4 fewer slots because of it. But Torch has the entire game balanced around it so it's "balanced", but only in the sense that it doesn't break the meta. It's inelegant but it works.
Torch is the poster boy of why rotation should happen. So many cards jump up and down tiers by a single hp.
[deleted]
It's just the dies to doom blade argument from Mtg
Nah. It's one thing to completely dismiss a card because it dies to removal, and another thing entirely to acknowledge that it's an important factor to how and when play the card. I'd certainly be careful to Twist this guy against a deck with F in it, that's a legitimate point to make.
Twist the guy in F he die to torch, twist the guy in J he die to vanquish, dont twist in s and he die to suffocate and even if you do he still die to annihilate.
​
Which leave time which had no direct damage outside of killer and primal which just gained ice bolt so regardlss of what you do he die.
The dies to doom blade argument is essentially a meme these days. Dying to removal is just a hazard of being a creature, therefore it's a pointless argument.
The comment I was replying to was pointing out the ubiquity of dies to torch as a comment, which as you point out is kinda ironic given it is quite relevant to this creature
Well... It's the dies to bolt argument
It's the argument that makes every 4-toughness 3 drop creature sell for way too much at release.
Thing with that arguement is that from standard to standard that change, not eveyr standard rotation has doomblade and lightning bolt. Sometimes they get more restrictive one like kill any non vampire/werewolf unit in a vampire werewolf set or deal 2 damage to a unit, double if it a werewolf/vampire.
Eternal is still stuck in that prime time everything included list so of course unit will be compared to the most optimal best removal present being Torch, Vanquish, Annihilate and Suffocate.
The card itself doesn't matter. It's just a meme way of saying "dies to removal therefore its bad". Its not meant to be reasonable criticism.
It's a little different because until they rotate/nerf/powercreep Torch there will always be 4 in every Fire deck. It's not that it dies to removal, it's that the most commonly played removal, the only one you're really guaranteed to always see, is good against it. Which is fine, but you have to take it into account when deck building.
Makes him a vanquish target too. Certainly a high risk play in many situations.