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r/pureasoiaf•
AlsoNotaSpider

Dany’s greatest handicap as a potential ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.

Spoilers Default

Gentle reminder to all: please keep Rule #1 of the sub in mind when posting. I don’t want to see anyone banned.

I get the impression that, regardless of having had advisors like Jorah or Barristan, Dany is wildly unprepared for the reception she’s likely to get in Westeros.

As of the end of ADWD, Dany has finally accepted that her place is not in Meereen. She’s a foreigner and an outsider there. I don’t think she recognizes that in Westeros, she’ll still be that.

Unlike [f]Aegon, she hasn’t had the benefit of a septa, Maester, master at arms, etc. She’ll have to contend with him and, regardless of her dragons, he has the better claim. If she goes to Westeros, she goes with an army of Unsullied and Dothraki, something the lords of the 7K will be less than happy with. As of now, she is still technically married to Hizdahr, a Meereenese noble who is about as likely to be accepted as king consort in Westeros as Hot Pie is.

The only respected individual so far that could really speak for her would be Barristan, and while I think his word would go a long way, we don’t even know if he’ll survive the battle of Meereen yet. Even if Tyrion joins up with her, his reputation as a wanted criminal is unlikely to help.

I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks will happen to Dany when she finally goes west. While I think some of the issues stated above may be resolved (mainly her marriage to Hizdahr) before then, I think she has some bumpy road ahead of her.

What do you think her reception will be like when she arrives? How do you think she’ll react/feel about it. How will her army of “savages” and ex-slaves fit into their new home?

Edit: fixed because I’m on my phone and it kept autocorrecting the word “Meereen”

Posted May 29, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC · edited

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Flameoftheshadows•

I think you might be right. It’s so sad that a girl who dreams of home has no place in the world.

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FanEu7•

She could have one if she didn't obsess so much over the IT

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huladream•

is she really though? didn't you haven't to forget she has to gain power or she get killed? robert never give that idea up. nor the rulers after him.

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Blerdyblah•

In general, I doubt that either she or Aegon would get a good reception simply because of the legacy that Aerys left (bar outliers like Dorne). Their youth probably won’t help either. Not a lot of great lords are going to welcome a teenager on the Iron Throne, except as a puppet. And Dany is no puppet.

But ultimately I think Dany’s family and foreign upbringing won’t be nearly as significant as the circumstances under which she arrives. Her last scenes in ADWD indicate that she’s going to go down a more ruthless path in the future, and with three dragons, Dany has a lot of literal firepower to be ruthless. I don’t see her being a Mad Queen, but more like the second coming of Aegon the Conqueror. “You don’t want to kneel? Fuck you, I’ve got dragons.” That would keep a lot of people in line on fear alone.

On the other hand, given how shit Westeros is, its possible that her arrival could be welcomed as a savior. If, say, she sweeps into the North right as the White Walkers invade and burns the zombies to a crisp, I think quite a few Northerners would embrace her. Similarly, southerners might embrace her as a relief from Cersei’s insanity.

Tl;dr her reception will depend mostly on her timing and decisions.

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AlsoNotaSpiderOP•

I think it’s very possible that Dany could take an Aegon the Conqueror approach in terms of taking Westeros. I’d be curious to see how she deals with ruling the Seven Kingdoms though.

Aegon made the people kneel, but when it came to how they ran their realms, he largely let the great lords keep their laws and customs in tact. That kept him in people’s good graces. I don’t know if Dany would do the same.

But you’re right, Westeros is a dumpster fire right now. Aside from war, crippling debt, and what is sure to be a long, hard winter, most of the kingdoms did not get that last harvest in so starvation is also a given. If she can help resolve some of these issues, people may flock to her.

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khaleesi_sarahaeKhaleesi of the Bluegrass Sea•

Aegon the Conqueror while he did use conquer by battle a lot, he gave them a chance to surrender, he helped rebuild and improve after, adopted some of his people’s customs, etc. Dany started doing this in Meereen but seemed to despise putting on her ‘floppy ears’.

I’ve been wondering if the songs and histories that Westeros Sir Jorah gave her will come into play, studying the former kings and learning from them, as it was one of 3 gifts from her wedding that was specifically mentioned. I always got the impression that Viserys told her ummm...abridged versions of Westerosi history. I’m hoping that she listens to Tyrion, Sam and her other advisors and they can help set the record straight and help her rule wisely. Learning from past rulers would go a long way to helping her since she didn’t have much guidance on ruling growing up.

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Blerdyblah•

I doubt Dany will be as willing to compromise when she arrives as she was in Meereen, which honestly is a good thing. On the other hand, I doubt that the compromises she DOES need to make will be as big, and will probably be more about the terms of bending the knee. For example, the Starks might swear loyalty in return for being restored as Wardens of the North and for armies against the White Walkers. And Dany does take her advisors seriously, so I imagine that will give her a boost.

The biggest sticking point, I think, is going to be Aerys’s memory. Like you said, Dany’s knowledge of her father is skewed. She knows on some level that he wasn’t that great a guy, but I don’t think she realizes what a monster he was. At some point, she’s gonna have to face up to the kind of man he was, and I doubt the fallout will be pretty.

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Blerdyblah•

Come to think of it, there’s gonna be a huge power vacuum regardless of what Dany does. A lot of the great lords are dead, and where they’ve been replaced, their replacements tend to be...controversial. I’m not sure the Westerosi could rally a unified resistance against Dany’s policies the way their ancestors might have done against Aegon.

Aside from that, I don’t see Dany trying to change Westerosi society. Her main priority is to become queen, and her values (feudalist government, slavery ban, Queensguard) have enough in common with Westeros that I doubt she would turn everything upside down like in Slavers’ Bay. More practically, the threat of a hard winter after a long civil war, even without the White Walkers, is going to displace any other concerns for like the next decade. If Dany wants to make major changes, she’ll only get the chance to do it long after she’s established herself in Westeros. And if she can bring an influx of gold/food with her when she lands, I’m sure people will flock to her banner.

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bootlegvader•

In general, I doubt that either she or Aegon would get a good reception simply because of the legacy that Aerys left (bar outliers like Dorne).

Doesn't Arya come across a peasant in the Riverlands who is all reminiscent about how much better is with the old king and then when she asks if she means Robert he clarifies he means Aerys II? Honestly, the majority of the realm likely had little problem with Aerys II as he wasn't any worse to them than the majority of their lords.

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kernal_chaosThe Nights Watch•

I've never felt Dany could successfully return by herself aside from using brute force. For the reasons you state and more. Westeros is too divided. Always liked the idea of the three heads of the dragon. Essentially Jon would pacify the North, Dany the Targ loyalists, and question marks for the third. Maybe Tyrion consolidates the Westerlands if he is really a secret Targ, maybe Aegon unites Dorne through marriage if he is legit. Of course, it'll probably happen completely different.

a Meereenese noble who is about as likely to be accepted as king consort in Westeros as Hot Pie is.

That said, long live King Hot Pie, First of his name, kitchen born, father of pastries, the well-baked, orphan king of the seven kingdoms!

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AlsoNotaSpiderOP•

Long may he reign

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spartaxwarrior•

I think you're right and that Dany is going to face a lot of issues with being 'too foreign', especially since fAegon has made it to Westeros first and was trained to be more Westerosi than she was. I think she may even help fAegon, if they end up antagonistic, by being a contrast to him.

In general, while she now knows that Westeros isn't secretly worshiping all things Targ waiting for her return, I think she expects to have a fairly decent reception from the public and maybe hasn't considered the full optics they'll be getting.

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MarianneML•

Thanks for this post as I had a few questions myself regarding this, and all three Targs we know of. Forgive me if I am forgetting sth, but I read the books a while ago, and am trying catch up by reading posts here and plot synopsis on the net (and will have to sit down and read the books again asap).

First, I would appreciate if someone could explain or direct me towards some posts that explain the theory that Aegon is fake.

Also, do you think it likely that Aegon will be the first to confront Cersei, before Daenerys arrives? And how long will it be before she does? Also, will she be able to accept him at all if she sees her self as a liberator, a Messiah, and believes in her destiny given that she is the last person in the world to have dragons? I am not quite sure she will, and seeing Aegon as an impostor, might lead her to some drastic decisions. Also, if we all know that R+L=J, I really don't think she will be very happy to hear that there are in fact two sons of Raeghar alive, both with stronger claims to the throne, and might just decide to crush them. For me personally, that thing tha the male children have better claim is stupid and I am more pro-Dorne about this.

As for the reception, it will greatly depend on the circumstances leading to Daenerys' arrival in Westeros, which is already divided between so many houses, plots, allies, fake allies, ensuing battles and the winter coming, probable starvation, etc. I think a lot will depend on how the battle in the North ends, and how the battle of Meereen is fought, in what way Daenerys unleashes the dragons or is able to control them. If she chooses the ruthless path, as in I have dragons, and is perhaps confronted by Sir Barristan because of the way she chooses to conquer, the outcome of that will determine her future endeavours. Plus, as I said above, if she confronts Aegon, and maybe later Jon, then we will have nothing but a few more contenders for the throne in the eyes of many lords, on top of those already in the game. To all of them, and the common people, the one who is able to put an end to the wars and unite the kindoms again will be most wellcome, and it might be Dany given the dragons. And yet again, they might not want the Targs on the throne again at all, so if Dany wants it badly it will have to be through fire and blood. Uh, it all seems quite dark what is coming, to be honest!

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AlsoNotaSpiderOP•

Lots of great thoughts here!

To start, the fAegon theory comes in part from a vision in the House of the Undying (cloth dragon swaying in a cheering crowd) and Quaithe’s warning to Dany to beware the mummer’s dragons. A cloth dragon used by mummers in shows is a fake dragon, indicating that Aegon may not be what he seems.

The pervading fAegon theory is that Aegon is really a Blackfyre pretender in disguise. The Blakfyres were extinguished in the male line when Maelys the Monstrous died, but not necessarily in the female line. Some people think the female Blackfyre in question was Serra, the Lysene whore that Illyrio bought and eventually married, and that she is Aegon’s mother. Note: while she is described as having big blue eyes, in contrast to Aegon’s purple ones, several blue eyes Targs had purple eyes children (ex: Queen Alysanne).

To your second question, I think Aegon will continue to engage in battle with Cersei’s forces, but I don’t think he’ll take KL. I do think he’ll win the Dornish to his side by marrying Arianne and who knows what else he’ll accomplish before Dany lands in Westeros. Slaver’s Bay isn’t exactly close so the journey west will take time.

I do think Dany’s messiah complex is going to create some problems for her when she arrives, especially if she sees claims better than hers out there to contend with. She’s been touting herself as the rightful heir, but finding out that she isn’t would destroy the identity that she has built. Despite how much heartache she’s endured while ruling Meereen, I do think she desires to be a Queen. Calling her claim into question would force her to confront that.

Also, as a woman, I don’t love the Andal custom of favoring a male heir over a female either. Unfortunately for Dany, Rhaegar’s children still take precedence over his siblings. If she was going up against his daughter, she’d still have the weaker claim.

Edit: I’ve also thought Illyrio’s wife Serra could be a distant relative of Saera, Jaehaerys and Alysanne’s daughter that ran away to Lys and later to Volantis to be the proprietor of a whorehouse. She may have had children in Lys that stayed in that city.

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MarianneML•

Thanks for reminding me of Saera, I am currently reading the World of Ice and Fire, I though I might do that first prior to re-reading the bools. Thanks for the info about (f)Aegon, I forgot about the mummers, though I knew about the doubt of him being the Blackfyre. I guess the next time I will read the books more carefully and better grasp the details.

I understand that Raeghar's children have a better claim, is it because he was the crowned prince?

And another thing I forgot, a lot will also depend on the Greyjoys, on how Dany receives Victarion, although I think once Euron finds out about Victarion trying to trick him, it will get rough. And I was wondering if there were a possibility that Euron, if he ever gets to Dany, had a nasty influence over her, as in they join their magic and ambition. I don't think there will be love involved, but some dark forces might be at hand here.

So many question...😀

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AlsoNotaSpiderOP•

I’d definitely recommend reading Fire and Blood when you can as well!

As the the line of succession, as king, Aerys’ heir to the throne was his oldest son, Rhaegar. So yes, as crown prince the throne would now be inherited through his line which means Rhaegar’s oldest son would be heir to the throne. Only when Rhaegar’s children were dead would his siblings have a claim to the throne.

The only weird exception here is, historically, when a Targ male heir died and left only daughters or children deemed unfit to rule, they might pass over his kids and make his oldest brother heir. It’s stupid imo, but whatever. Like you, I prefer the Rhoynish customs :)

Also, I totally think Euron knows exactly what Victarion is up to and he’s probably already had a good laugh about it. Victarion doesn’t strike me as capable of more trickery than you’d find in your basic Elmer Fudd trap. The only wild card is Moqorro and I think he is either using Victarion to undermine Euron, or using him to get close to Euron.

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MarianneML•

Uh, you are mentioning some names that I almost forgot about 😀 thanks, this actually makes me want to get to the books asap.

I got Fire and Blood as well, started reading it, but switched to the World because I needed to get back to the issues before the Targs, to try to understand some other things.

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Alchemysecrets•

Such an insteresting read, I agree with all of your points. Dany will face lot of backlash when she lands in Westeros. I'm also very curious how Jon Snow will eventually weave into fAegon and Dany's story.

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dakedenizen•

For better or worst, Archmaester Marwyn the Mage is coming to Dany, which should help with her handicap as you noted.

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epolonsky•

I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks will happen to Dany when she finally goes west.

Isn’t she going east first?

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Rogojinen•

Now that she’s with the Dothraki, she only has to go back to Qarth, to go on her promise to take back what is hers with fire and blood, take there enough ship to transport her Unsullied, the many khalasars she’ll probably end up unifying and the freed slaves smart enough to follow instead of waiting to be put back in chains when she leaves.

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chocso•

Ooooh, I think her reception will depend on many factors. Has Aegon already made his name there as their rightful king? Is Westeros in turmoil, what with Cersei's madness and after effects of the War? Has Winter finally come to Westeros, are the Others an active threat when she arrives? I honestly have no clue what will happen when she comes to Westeros and I wish I had the talent to predict and formulate a theory like the brilliant people here. But from what I've seen in ADWD and her experience in Mereen and her experience with the Dothraki, if she learns the culture and history of Westeros and assimilates herself well with the people (yes, yes she knows it already but it's a biased, tainted version from her brother) like she did with the Dothraki there's a good chance she is welcomed warmly. Provided targaryen loyalists haven't firmly sided with Aegon, or fAegon. But if she remains an outsider, which in my opinion she was in Mereen, then I fear for her. I want Dany to have a home she's always wanted so badly. And I just cannot wait for TWOW man

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Starkrall•

I think Hizdahr will have been taken care of one way or another well before Dany moves on Westeros. However, I believe his influence in Dany's absence will allow him to do plenty of damage before she returns, possibly removing her from her seat entirely, should Barristan not make a move to intercept. In regards to Dany's reception in Westeros, it will most likely be a bloody one. Her desire for the throne, and her belief that the smallfolk are sewing Targ banners and praying for her return in secret are all machinations of Viserys, indoctrinating her since she was very young. It doesn't help that until recently her conquest was going quite well, setting her expectations of her reception much higher than they should be.

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Shagwell_the_Fool•

Even from the beginning I was always skeptical about the reaction Dany would get from the Westerosi. I never thought it would be a good one. Only time will tell.

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Admiral-Bones•

Was it Tyrion who described Dany as "Aegon with teats"? I suspect we'll see Dany adopt a carrot-and-stick approach when dealing with Westeros. She'll bend but she won't break when it comes to accommodating Westerosi lords. Of course, the extent to which she relies on one or the other probably depends on how she deals with fAegon. If fAegon can convince Westeros that he is indeed the son of Rhaegar, his credibility might be called into question if he can't control Dany's three dragons. Would the lords back the dragon-less true heir (believing fAegon to be real) or the Targaryen with three dragons under her control?

If Dany manages to control Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion before crossing the narrow sea, she won't even need the Unsullied or Dothraki. She will essentially have her finger on the nuclear option all the time. And she might just use them as a first response. What fool would refuse to bend the knee when staring in the face of three grown dragons?

I don't believe Hizdahr will factor greatly in Dany's Westerosi campaign. I suspect GRRM will wrap up this thread before Dany leaves (either in death or some alternative state). Although it is true that Dany doesn't really know Westeros or how it works. Ser Barristan can help, but he's just a soldier; and Tyrion may not be objective or in the right state of mind, thereby harming Dany's attempt to make peace with a carrot.

Ultimately, I believe we'll see Daenerys the Conqueror. She may not be as conciliatory as Aegon the First but she certainly is not her father. Dany has a gentle soul (or I might be projecting) but she's tired of playing games, especially after Meereen. I suspect the Dany we'll meet in Westeros is one who will want to get things done, come hell or high water.

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