XT 12 Speed is here!
imbikemag.com/mountain-bike-news/2019/05/new-...Posted May 31, 2019, 11:02 AM UTC
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Micro-spline interface on hubs means this probably isn't going to be all that useful except for new bikes or wheelsets.
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I talked to a Shimano sales rep about it yesterday, he did say that you would need new wheels to make the switch.
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No you don't. You can upgrade hubs freehubs. See the original thread on the shimano 12 speed posted yesterday. A lot of info on how to upgrade to use this kit.
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Only like 2 manufacturers have licensed the freehub
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The DT freehub works on a lot of OEM hubs (Specialized, for example).
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As of now yes, but that includes Bontrager, Spesh, Giant, and Onyx being compatible with the microspline
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It's sort of my understanding that replacing an old shimano freehub with an XD driver is doable though? Meaning SRAM is the only real 12 speed retrofit?
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If you have a DT based freehub you can upgrade to microspline like you swap XD and HG freehubs. An 80 part that includes the endcap.
So, DT wheels, many Giant, many Spesh, many Bontrager, Onyx. I also believe i9 licensed the microspline freehub to swap out on their hubs.
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This is why I have Dt Swiss hubs on both my wheel sets. I only need one 12 speed casset and XD driver. I can just slide the whole cassette and driver off and on to the other wheel when I switch wheel sets. Only need 1 star ratchet upgrade kit too as those slip on and off just as easy.
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I just want a wide range 10 speed.
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Then look at the Deore M6000 series :)
The current deore generation handles 11-42, their official casette is called: CS-HG500 11-42
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11-42 is not wide range. I ride that now.
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11-42 is absolutely wide range
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for a traditional 10 speed it is. But I want a 11-50 10 speed.
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Get a smaller chainring, no one on 10-speed really needs the top end. (that's not an insult, just that if you're racing or something you're going to be on 12-speed)
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I run a 30 already, it works fine for local terrain, but for altitude riding, I do end up needing something smaller.
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11-42 is indeed wide range, it was the very first wide range cassette that existed. it's just been overshadowed by the massive ranges we have now.
With that said, if you want more range, you'll have to go 11 speed, the jumps would be massive with 10 speed if you had, let's say an 11-46 or 11-50 (they already are pretty big on 11 speed)
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I had 11-50 11 speed. Went back to 11-42 10 speed. I don't mind the jumps, I have strong enough legs from riding dirt jumps and accelerating with the single speed setup on the DJ, and Im not concerned with optimal pedaling efficiency.
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None of my 11 spd chains, cassettes, or derailleurs have failed over the past few years. So, I don't see how it's not as robust. I don't see many people breaking any of the 11 speed stuff more than 10 speed either.
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I weigh 280 and haven’t broken any of my 11 speed Shimano parts. I did destroy a novatec rear hub.
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Options for 10 spd 11-42 have been available for years.
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Thats what I ride now, and its not wide range. I want like 11-50 10 speed. I get that XC guys may want closer ratios, but for trail riding, 11-50 10 speed would make more sense. More robust shifting and stronger chain.
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More robust shifting and stronger chain.
Can you explain what you mean by this? I'd have thought a narrower range would be easier to shift and ask less of the chain.
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10 speed spacing is wider than 11 speed or 12 speed. Therefore, there is more room for indexing error, which can happen with things like cable stretch. The 10 speed chain is also wider, which means its stronger when you really put the power down in the gears that are offset from center that flex the chain laterally.
11 and 12 speeds work fine for most people, I just prefer the 10 speed personally. Ive had both 11 speed XT and now 10 speed 11-42, and I find that I can abuse the drivetrain more without loss of shifting quality.
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Not an xc guy, but rode 10 spd with range extender cog/intermediate cog- it was wonky.
I broke 4 9spd chains in 4 years. 11 and 12spd, no chain breaks in 4 years. Have you seen people breaking 11 speed chains?
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I personally have not seen any chain break, but 11 and 12 speed chains are narrower which means they are less strong laterally, which is more of an issue for 1x drivetrains.
Also keep in mind that 9 speed chains are for lower end drivetrains and tend to be made to lower quality than 10 or 11 speed.
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Sweet! I wonder if they'll compete on price with SRAM?
XTR is actually cheaper than XX1.
At MSRP it's about the same... but since Shimano doesn't protect it's pricing, nobody pays MSRP for it.
An SLX group set is $35 more than NX Eagle, and likely is miles better.
Is this opinion based on fact and / or personal experience, or Shimano brand loyalty?
A little column A, a little column B.
Whilst the SLX isn't exactly light, the NX cassette stills weighs over 100 grams more.
The NX shifter is a plasticky piece of junk. The derailleur is made of only the purest Chinesium and loves to bend and go out of adjustment quickly. Feel at the shift lever is way better on current SLX than NX, and shift accuracy at the business end of things is also better on SLX.
Hyperglide+ is something that SRAM simply can't compete with at the moment. Full chain engagement going up AND down the cassette? Yes please.
Also hollow crankarms.
Hyperglide+ is amazing. I don’t think there is enough awareness of how big a difference it is. Also not enough said about how it shifts under load
I feel a little skeptical that you’ve done a direct comparison of the two with the most current iterations, particularly as you said SLX is ‘likely miles better’ (language doesn’t sound like someone who has had the chance to do so) - but I’ll take you for your word. Also, are you comparing 11 speed to 12 speed cassettes in terms of weight?
I guess my point is - in my experience, and I have used both systems a fair amount (although comparing current generations only happens when there is a demo day or I borrow a friends bike, and generally that is not enough time to pick up on the finer details) - when comparing groupsets tier to tier, there is no clear winner. There are pros and cons, but generally a lot of brand loyalty. It’s like comparing Stihl chainsaws to Husqvarna, or Ford trucks to Chevy, etc... If one brand was miles ahead of the other at a similar price, no one would buy the inferior product.
Me and my riding friends all run with different groupsets, Shimano XT / SLX, SRAM X01, GX and NX - no one is suffering from increased maintenance, no one is suffering from missed or clunky shifts. It all works, and these days works well.