Underperforming students 'exempt' from NAPLAN tests
abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/05/11/2896141.htmPosted May 11, 2010, 4:08 AM UTC
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abc.net.au
Why can't we have a standardised system ?
Why can't a yr 8 child in Perth be learning the same things as a yr 8 child in Sydney ?
Why can't parents have easy access to a schools performance ?
Why can't that data be collected so something can be done about underperformed schools ?
and finally why can't teachers be accountable ? - lots of jobs, including my part time job (while I study to become a teacher) have KPI's that have to be met
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why can't teachers be accountable ?
This will make them accountable. They will be accountable to the test, not the student.
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but before there was nothing - at least this is something and the teachers are complaining about being made accountable to which I respond - why do you not want to be accountable ? myself and others have KPI's they need to meet in their jobs why not something similar for you ?
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Because "How much did students learn from this teacher" is not quantifiable in any way. Teachers will merely end up teaching kids how to take the test.
You end up with situations where a good teacher gets discriminated against because the previous year their students teachers were duds. Or the other way round, bad teachers get promoted/paid better solely because their students previous teachers were great teachers.
Look at the "no child left behind" policy disaster in america for an example of why this is bad.
myself and others have KPI's they need to meet in their jobs why not something similar for you ?
Well I'm not a teacher, or in any way associated with education. I work in an industry that is notorious for metrics/kpis causing multi million/billion dollar screw ups. Most human endeavors are not, or at least not easily, quantifiable. It's only idiot managers that have no idea what their employees do day in day out that think theirs any value in them.
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firstly the no child left behind is a different kettle of fish
secondly then do you have any other suggestions? something has to be done to fix the gaps and inequality in the current system
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"We must do something. This is something. So we must do it."
An inappropriate performance indicator is worse than useless. This standardised test approach is just such an inappropriate performance indicator.
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Why can't we have a standardised system ?
One is being pushed for, and unlike the last x times in the past 40 years (seriously) it may actually happen.
Why can't parents have easy access to a schools performance?
Because measuring of performance, especially with methods like this (tests), leads to teaching for the performance review and little else. It is possible to make something like that work, but from previously given examples (US, UK, some others), it is extremely hard to avoid. Also, published results would have the effect of having students removed from the school, leading to a loss of funding, leading to a further loss of students and resources, leading to a cycle. I've seen it happen, albeit on a word-of-moth scale. It took a big effort by a very special person to pull that school out of that slump. Seriously, things will get worse if this is implemented. I would bet my car on it.
Why can't a yr 8 child in Perth be learning the same things as a yr 8 child in Sydney ?
Bureaucracy, the attempt for a national standard system has been made many a time in the previous forty years, politics and bureaucracy on the behalf of the education department has mostly held it back.
why can't teachers be accountable?
Because any methods of measuring a teachers performance that are at all cost effective corrupt the teaching methods to a totally unacceptable degree. The only at all reasonable system would be one of actual auditors visiting classes and examining on a case by case basis, which is totally ridiculous on a monetary basis. the only other option (realistically speaking), using test results, will in an example like this lead to a greater degree of teaching to the test than is already in place.
Sorry about the rant, but hell, it's the one thing I'm qualified to rant about.
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no apologies necessary, I read and listen to true rants from teachers about this but it is always in the negative to questions like mine, it is nice to read something that a) isn't all negative and b) doesn't just say 'becuase the government is shit '
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The risk for a national fuck up is great.
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So what ? why shouldn't we do something because something might go wrong ? this fear of failing is an insidious disease that has spread throughout Australia with people stiking their heads in the sand hoping the status-quo will go on and everything will be alight without changing anything
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It's nothing to do with the possibility of failure. It's all about the likeliness of failure and the potential fallout. The fallout would be massive (My state rolled out a new education system while I was in high school. It was a disaster and was stressful for staff and students) and, the likeliness of a failure is also massive given the general incompetence of the two main parties.
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but something needs to change - there needs to be something keeping the same standard across the board becuase currently not only do schools in different states do things differently at different levels but schools in the same state are following different plans
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Another brilliant implementation of policy by the government .. sigh
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how is this the governments fault ? should they have members of the AFP at every school making sure every student does the test ? how could it have been implemented better ?
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Based on the No Child Left Behind program in the US, the government should have realised that it probably wasn't the best way to go about assessing and comparing schools.
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If I ever find out who the stupid bastards in the department are who are advocating the american and British systems. I will personally insult them.
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I'm a fan of kneecapping but insulting works too.
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It's hard to take you seriously when you put a space before your question mark.
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i'm sorry
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Tragic.
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What's the point then really?
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[sarcasm] To keep our children safe. [/sarcasm]
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<brackets>are wrong type</brackets>
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Of the NAPLAN? It is supposed to allow people to roughly evaluate students intellectual abilities at a glance in order to better provide for them. Well, it was.
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We Need Plumbers, As My old man said I was going to become a Plumber but my old man told me to learn a trade first...
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I understand the point that we probably should have a standardised national curriculum and that there should be fair assessment of a school's performance as a guide to the quality of teaching. But I feel it then becomes more about reputation and less about education. While theoretically the program should encourage teachers to 'teach better', I think the focus will shift from learning to solve a problem to getting the answers right.
I personally believe that school is for learning life skills - trigonometry, calculus and algebra aren't taught because you'll need to know it in life, they're taught because they teach you how you analyse different problems, apply what knowledge you do have and hopefully solve the problem quickly and efficiently. English subjects teach critical thinking and the ability to view something from different perspectives, and so on.
I'd be willing to give this whole NAPLAN thing a go, we've had the Basic Skills testing for a while now in a few states and they've been happening with little drama for the past 20yrs at least. I think it's the word 'comparison' that freaks everyone out. It shifts the focus from education to performance (they're related yes, but two very different things).
I'm fine with not every kid going to uni and ending up as a doctor/lawyer/engineer/etc, you certainly don't need to have a PhD to get through life. But what I don't like is that a child is shoved aside, and told to take a day off because a teacher doesn't have faith in that student. A teacher's first priority should be the student, each and every student. And while I'm sure the teacher tried to help the kid throughout the year, "oh well, worst case scenario we'll just tell him/her to take the day off" is not a good attitude to have.
EDIT - TL;DR: NAPLAN is theoretically good but practically potentially disastrous.
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Who cares? The children who get the marks will go to university and the others will get the jobs left over. A school might have the worst 'performance' on record. That doesn't stop their one shining student from getting ahead. Work hard and you'll get where you want to be. Don't and someone else will make that decision for you.
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Cause and effect really. Shakes head.