Source
r/CruciblePlaybook•
WCMaxi

Revisiting shotgun barrel perks and the range cap

A month or so back a few posts cropped up stating range no longer had a measurable effect on shotgun OTK range and that Full Choke was the only barrel option worthy of pursuit. Some stated range could tighten pellet spread as well, and thus still mattered. Further still, the effect of range on bullet magnetism is must also be considered, but as I did my testing on PC, there's little to say to that. Testing was done using the new Tribute Hall with Darci.

 

What I found:

Speculation on range as meaningless is merited. I tested with Aggressive Frames and Precision Frames and found the following.

  • As long as the range stat is above 27 Aggressive Frames hit range cap. I tested as high at 65 and found no extension of range beyond what was reached at 27.
  • For Precision Frames I do not have a ultra low roll to check, but effectively, even roll I tested from 60 range up to 96 all hit the same range cap.
  • The range cap is 8m for Aggressive and 8.5m for Precision. A case could be made for 8.1m or 8.6m, etc., but there's no real way to test with that level of accuracy.

 

Testing spread showed a different result.

  • For barrels other than Full Choke, range does tighten spread. The effect is noticeable when you take the time to examine it.
  • For Full Choke, the effect of range does NOT tighten spread. Effectively, Full Choke might be thought of as the tightest possible spread for minus range.
  • The results from above are the same for Aggressive or Precision, but it must be noted that Precision do inherently have a tighter spread by default, however, this could also be the effect of their inherently higher base range stat.

 

Speculating on how it became this way... well, Bungie have nerfed range twice and impact once. The impact nerf is not meaningful for the range stat issue, but I would think of it like this.

  • Range cap is determined by archetype.
  • For Aggressive, the current 8m cap was achievable with 27m before and anything past that would push it toward its prior caps (9m, 10m or whatever from before). Effectively, Bungie locked the current cap to the range's baseline making the range stat meaningless instead of giving higher range a % toward reaching the cap.
  • This same logic applied to Precision, but I don't have a gun that doesn't offer the minimum 8.5m cap so I can't tell the floor.

 

All this comes back to something mentioned in the posts from a while back, for Aggressive Frames, the old range trifecta as a MUST is no longer required. In fact, not required at all. However, Full Choke's ability to give the tightest possible spread makes it the key barrel. From there, Handling MW and Assault Mag are likely the best options you can attain with Snapshot, Quick Draw as best in class when available and then Slideshow when not.

 

As a side note, I tested Opening Shot as well and it is completely unique from the above findings and should be considered its own outlier. Opening Shot gives a range cap of 9m for Aggressive Frames. However, there's no weapon that offers Opening Shot + Snap Shot or Quick Draw so the benefit of the added 1m comes at a great expense to an ideal roll. Effective, if you have an exotic that can give handling boosts, like OP Aspects or Dragon's Shadow, pairing that with an Opening Shot shotty will give the furthest OTK without the issue of low handling. Outside of that, FC + handling perks is the best role.

As a further note, I know these findings break mental models we've held since D1, but I welcome others to test it too. The Hall gives an easy ground to test and verify. The way Bungie nerfed range is in some ways the laziest way but also perhaps the smartest... by putting the range cap so low, any shotty roll is competitive, however, they have thus over emphasized the benefit of Full Choke. As always, the lack of transparency in this means they meaninglessness of the range stat took the Hall to fully verify.

 

Adding a TL;DR,

  • If you have FC and a range over 27, you have the max range cap and tightest spread, and thus, should focus on other perks for your other columns.
  • If you have any other barrel than FC, range will tighten spread, thus, you should go all in on range (other than Smooth Bore which is a known no).

 

Adding data by request, more to do...

For hip firing

  • Hip fire Aggressive Frame range cap is 6m
  • Hip fire Precision Frame range cap is 7m
  • Freehand Mod adds +1m range to hip firing on Aggressive
  • Freehand Mod adds +?m range to hip firing on Precision (TBH, need glimmer)

Note: this means hip fire is much better than I originally imagined...

  • Testing shows high range value is more important that Full Choke for tighter spread while hip firing and this applies to both Aggressive and Precision, so for raw hip fire spread, max range is the most superior option.
  • I do not have a hip fire grip shotty to give information there, if I get one I will add it.

For Slide Shot

  • This is a bitch to test... and I'm not sure the right way to go about it, my best guess is that it adds nothing to the range cap,
  • However, I can slide from about 13m to 14m out and get the range cap within the animation, however, by the time my slide ends I am at 6m or 7m so it would seem like the shot was fired while I was at 8m... it is damn near impossible to check without a second person standing at a point verified to be 8m or 9m and then that person verifying where you fired. Overall, the results are certainly not crystal clear like Opening Shot

 

Edit: a few small thing before this falls off the map,

  • No claims are being made to OHTK range, merely, the point that range drops off is establish and that range does have an effect on spread for hip firing and all barrels other than Full Choke
  • I will make no claims to what range does on console (PC only), it is said to influence aim assist, which thus influences stickiness which may make it easier to keep your shots on target - as we don't have this on PC, it is not a concern
  • Also I know range is said to effect "bullet magnetism", but I think the community misuses this word... I worked in game dev 20 years (no longer do) and hitscan weapons (shotguns are) will not have their bullets warp to a target because the bullets don't exists. Hurt boxes and hit boxes can be enlarged, which is what may be occurring when "bullet magnetism" is referenced. Either way, given how close you are when you engage with a shotty, this shouldn't be an important factor: spread and damage will determine everything.

Posted Jul 11, 2019, 4:05 PM UTC · edited

164123
ZeroSkitzo•

Awesome and detailed post! So glad to know both my retold and mindbenders “god” rolls came with a handling mw (was slightly worried not range)!

Also will be going back to FC over rifled on my retold :) - lucky enough to swap if things ever change though haha

8
WCMaxiOP•

I don't imagine Bungie buffing shotguns, but they may correct the meaning of the range stat in the future, this, keep your max rolls. But for the current meta, hunt FC and handing boosts above all else.

7
dusty_trendhawk•

No kidding? I have a Dust Rock with Full Choke / Accurized / Slideshot / Snapshot / Handling MW.. I’ve always been bummed it didn’t have the Range MW. I’m dusting her off tonight.

2
ErikBombarie•

Have you also tested lightweight frames?

1
WCMaxiOP•

Sorry, I don't own enough to verify their base range (I only have one).

1
ErikBombarie•

Oke but there OHK range is probably less than the precision and aggresive frames I guess?

1
Auraaaaaa•

How did you test range decreases pellet spread?

Also do you have a video or anything?

8
WCMaxiOP•

No video as I think the results are easy too duplicate now that we have the Hall. Pellet spread check was done by shooting a wall.

1
Auraaaaaa•

So you eye balled it? How many times did you shoot? what was the range difference in shotguns? how did you calculate the change in spreads?

I'm sorry but shooting a wall proves absolutely nothing, Firstly pellet spread is entirely RNG so you can't reliably test it without an insane amount of shots but even then 2 completely identical test could yield entirely different results.

And even then if you wanted to test pellet spread the best way would be to shoot someone because the game calculates the pellets instead of you eyeballing it.

4
WCMaxiOP•

I didn't say I eye balled it. You can take the images, over lay them in Photoshop, set all layers to Darken blend mode and verify. However, even without, flipping between a very low range energy non-FC roll to a kinetic very high range non-FC roll and the difference is obvious which is why my confidence is so high.

Shooting a guardian is the best way to check the likely OHTK range which I didn't claim. Merely, range as meaningless due to cap and the effect of range on spread for non-FC barrels.

1
seesplease•

The shotguns I've tested myself show the same pattern - I noticed that roll with and without a range masterwork had exactly the same OHKO distance.

6
hobocommand3r•

Max range full choke imperial decree was really bad when testing it in private matches. Couldn't kill from 8 meters while a rifled one could sometimes kill from 9. Vs a 1 resilience guardian that is. In my experience full choke sucks on aggressives. In pvp. PVE testing may yield different results.

6
Yourself013•

In pvp. PVE testing may yield different results.

This is the important thing here. OP said he tested all this on "various Fallen mobs"...why not test this stuff in a private match with an actual player with actual PvP numbers instead of in the Hall of Triumphs? It´s not like this testing is hard. We already know that Bungie balances PvE and PvP separately numbers-wise, it would not suprise me at all if damage drop off and range (or other factors) were different too.

9
Nearokins•

why not test this stuff in a private match with an actual player with actual PvP numbers instead of in the Hall of Triumphs? It´s not like this testing is hard.

The woes of having friends.

I'm still honestly really mad they didn't add a guardian to the tribute hall, because it's the most annoying enemy to simulate shooting.

With how gambit works I don't see a reason it couldn't exist in the same space as pve enemies, too.

1
wizkidbrandon•

Yup, same thing with Mindbender's Ambition. Give me Rifled Barrel all day every day on Aggressives.

2
StygianDarkwaters•

Will a non-Full Choke Aggressive with Opening Shot consistently kill from 9 meters? I have a LMS with Rifled/Assault/Opening Shot I've been meaning to try out.

4
WCMaxiOP•

In terms of pushing range cap that will reach cap at 9m, but pellet spread may be such that you don't experience the longer OHTK. Full Choke is there to mitigate the spread issue (although, so subject to RNG).

2
LordSpanky80•

I got a LMS w/ smallbore/accurized&lightmag/openingShot/swashbuckler/range masterwork

I was so proud of it, as it can't be rolled in menagerie and the barrel was top tier for current state of shotties, then ofc it was all in for range.

It is my easiest OHK shotty in crucible, even over my precision shotties, of which I possess a few G-rolls.

I guess it turns out i needed FC assault mag and handling mw.

That's depressing. I am 100% positive I have dismantled oh so many rolls like this of basically all meta shotty models.

FML

Sometimes I would have preferred to be ignorant, ignorant and still proud of a few of my favorite shotty rolls.

I'm too OCD to let it go. They will likely be dismantled soon, though I will try to maintain enough sanity to keep them vaulted just in case shit changes again. Idk though, that those unsightly rolls are sitting in my vault is going to rub me wrong.

1
MatticusjK•

So it seems you tested max OHK range, but what about consistency? We're really looking for how frequently will your roll OHK at that maximum distance (8.0 for aggressive or 8.5 for precision)

Tbh I think we need a LOT of samples. I'd personally like to see curves plotted, while controlled for perks except range enhancements, showing how many samples at each range were able to OHK. A blue or green shottie at 27 range for aggressive could be used as a rough baseline but I'm unfamiliar with those options.

Very difficult indeed. Great write-up but I think this area still needs a lot of investigation. Maybe if folks are willing to spend too much time farming shotgun rolls on PS4 we can do some testing? I've yet to be satisfied by any of the shotgun tests conducted thus far. There's a lot of variables that are not being appropriately controlled imo

Edit: I read through some more of your comments and seem to have misunderstood the process. I'll build on some of my questions to combine with your results as confirmation

4
WCMaxiOP•

I think there's some poor communication by me, this is not a claim to OHTK range. Merely, where's range fall off and what's the effect of range on pellet spread.

TBH, D2 is too wonky to give a realistic OHTK answer. RNG pellets, shoddy netcode make a reliable answer difficult. I will say, I don't think realistic OHTK is at 8m. Likely 7m or 7.5m.

2
dillpicklezzz•

Are you on PS4? I have some Imperial Decrees I'd like to test and document for the sub. Need some assistance!

1
MatticusjK•

I sure am! I've got a few ID as well, im gonna have to take some time to write up and review a testing procedure that we can hopefully run through this weekend? Feel free to DM me

1
dillpicklezzz•

#Herewegoagain. Do you happen to have a video of this testing or even the pellet spreads? Otherwise, someone else could make another post without video proof, claim something different than what you've found, and be just as credible. We have too many of these posts already.

​

Precision do inherently have a tighter spread by default, however, this could also be the effect of their inherently higher base range stat.

​

Here's my thoughts on this; Bungie made a shotgun archetype with a tighter spread and named it "Precision Frame". They inherently have tight pellet spread and were named accordingly. Whether or not Range effects that specific frame, I can't say.

​

I'm trying to test and document 4 different Imperial Decrees with varying Range stats and barrels but I need someone to shoot assist on PS4. Message me if interested.

3
WCMaxiOP•

Sorry, I don't have time to generate and edit video content and thanks to the Hall it is possible for you or anyone to verify or dispute the findings. I welcome being wrong, but it seems others have similar findings.

Range also effects spread on precision frames for any barrel other than Full Choke.

1
smokey6953140•

Right there are different frames! Congrats on your findings! But the precision frame have increased damage to precision or critical spot. So while it does have a tighter spread it prospers from a chest/neck shot where part of the pellets do precision damage securing a OHK. This is where they get there archetype from. Aggressive can one shot chest shot giving them a more forgiving OHK. #herewe go again with nonsense information hindering a guardians due diligence on his findings in range drop off using full choke and other barrels. Anyways most the community agrees with his findings that range has been capped meaning barrel and mag or barrel and MW is all that's needed to hit the range cap. Dont dilute somebody's else's hardwork without bringing something to the table.

-1
dillpicklezzz•

Thanks asshat! You sound ridiculous telling me I cannot question someone's claim without bringing something to the table. This isn't some neighborhood potluck I'm freeloading on. Don't get all butthurt because I want video proof, which this sub seems to be lacking on ALL of these Shotgun threads.

2
smokey6953140•

here we go again /You started off with an asshat post!

1
dillpicklezzz•

Here's what my original comment was about;

​

  • Asking for video evidence of these claims because this sub is filled with "This is BEST barrel" or "RANGE DOES XXXXX" without any evidence to back it up.
  • Next, I said my thoughts on Precision frames.
  • Then, I say HMU if anyone wants to help me test barrels.

​

You got wildly butthurt over this comment? You got issues. Or you're in love with OP;

​

Your findings are amazing

No its amazing work thank you for your research

Thank you! And congrats on your research.

​

You're not worth talking to any further.

2
asce619•

Thanks for your endeavours guardian. This will certainly change what 'god rolls' are for shotguns. I've always gone with the range trifecta and somehow been baptized as such. Any other roll was an instant shard. Woe is me that this has come to light and I might have gotten rid of some true monsters.

3
Sarniarama•

Interesting stuff, thanks for posting it.

Which simulated mob were you testing on, and how do you define range cap?

I did so.w testing too today but got some weird results.

I found that range increases damage once past the damage drop-off point. Changing from rifled barrel to barrel shroud and taking off Accurized saw the damage reduce

What totally threw me was that I had one Imperial Decree that consistently did between 11% and 20% more damage than the other 9 I tested. I even tried going to orbit and back and logging off.

On real mobs it does the same, so there's something weird going on there.

2
StygianDarkwaters•

What was the roll on the outlying ID?

2
WCMaxiOP•

I tested on various Fallen mobs and checked damage numbers for any change from 0m out to cap. I will say there are some weird things which might be there result of light level... I had different numbers from Stubborn Oak, Deadpan Delivery, and Mindbenders. The only conclusion I could draw was the effect of light level since they are all 80 impact. These weapons were all consistent from 0m to cap other than Stubborn Oak which is below range cap threshold.

1
Sarniarama•

It is indeed the power level of the weapon. Makes it a bit awkward to test things if they all need to be the same level. I can live with that though, so happy to have somewhere to test.

2
WCMaxiOP•

Just check damage at 0m and the verify from there for that weapon.

1
freshwordsalad•

You can test in the Tribute Hall now, as well.

1
seesplease•

Were they different power levels? The damage you deal in the Tribute Hall is not capped to any particular power level (unlike patrol), so if your overall power changes due to the guns having slightly different power levels, the damage numbers will be different.

1
Sarniarama•

You sir are a star. Can't believe I didn't think of that with hindsight.

I was worried that it wasn't going to be a useable place to test things, which is something I love doing.

1
seesplease•

Yeah, it's a fantastic place for testing. I was testing Sidearm DPS (to show people that sidearms with Swashbuckler or Rampage are better DPS than recluse...) and I noticed that two Drangs were doing slightly different damage. I then realized that one was 750 power and one was 731 power - after infusing it fixed the issue.

2
[deleted]•

Someone please test the hip fire range of shotguns, then with hip fire grip and freehand grip.

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WCMaxiOP•

There Hall is open to all, give it a try and see.

1
[deleted]•

Oh right! I haven’t been there yet but I saw it on YouTube yesterday, looks amazing!!

1
WCMaxiOP•

Added hip fire results, but I don't have a shotty with hip fire grip.

1
[deleted]•

You are the MAN. I’m surprised to see the precision frames get that hip fire bonus. Very interested to see how far a hip fire grip + freehand grip combo works now!!!

1
WCMaxiOP•

I'd caution range cap doesn't mean OHTK. Pellet is such there's no way your landing enough to kill from the hip at this ranges.

1
ZongopBongo•

Two follow-up questions:

  • Does slideshot offer that same range booster similar to opening shot

  • How does a max range (trifecta) non-full choke compare to a full choke in terms of pellet spread (on the same archtype obv.)

I guess what im asking is, in terms of OHK distance is it better to just get full choke or actually go for the range trifecta with a rifled barrel for better pellet tightness

2
WCMaxiOP•

I did not that for Slide Shot at I don't have enough rolls with it. It is possible it has the effect listed.

I tested many ranges with Full Choke for pellet tightening and found no difference at all. Full Choke gives maximum tightness. Thus, FC is more important than range trifecta.

3
ZongopBongo•

FC gave a tighter pellet spread than a maxed range with a different barrel? Nothing can give that level of pellet spread?

2
WCMaxiOP•

Assuming the same archetype, FC is a tighter spread at any range than max range roll with any other barrel.

5
ZongopBongo•

Understood. Thank you for the testing and contributing your time to the cause

3
sillybulanston•

This is great analysis OP, thank you for testing this. When you are speaking to the range caps by archetype, you are speaking to the damage drop off of the pellets right? Not the impact of range on pellet spread for non-Full Choke barrels?

I still feel like there is something strange going on with the barrel debate though that falls outside of pellet spread tightness or damage dropoff. There are a lot of high tier players who are saying that on Aggressive shotguns, Rifled Barrel seems to give them better performance in actual application in the Crucible. Is this possibly some form of confirmation bias or placebo effect? Possibly. But there is so much going on in the range stat in Destiny that we can't rule out their experiences.

One thing I know is that Not Forgotten hits headshots with noticeably higher reticle displacement from the head than Luna's Howl does. u/Manifest_Lightning had a great post the other day about Aggressive Frames taking one fewer pellet to kill if two pellets hit crits. I'm thinking that if you beef up your range stat to obscene levels with Rifled, Accurized, Range MW, you're going to be getting those more forgiving crit hitboxes which will allow you to frequently hit 2 crit pellets get those 8 pellet kills. Moreover, on controller we know that range also aids with reticle stickiness, so having high range would reduce the propensity for off target shots (this factor is irrelevant for M&K though).

At any rate, it's definitely good to know that range affects pellet spread on non-Full Choke barrels and that range has a cap by archetype. These are very important findings. Thanks again OP.

2
kujayhawk47•

Speaking from my own experiences, there is something very important that is ALWAYS overlooked when it comes to these shotgun tests:

In-Air Performance.

Granted, this is much harder to test than shooting at a stationary target standing directly in front of you at the same head-level. HOWEVER, over the past month or so, I have come to the conclusion that I do NOT want Full Choke on my shotguns, because of the additional effect of Full Choke that removes the ability to do precision damage.

This lack of precision damage in a ground test is a non-factor, because when facing an opponent at the same head-level on the ground, you want to aim center-mass (at the chest) to ensure that all pellets hit. However, if you have a very vertical playstyle (like myself), you will often find yourself either directly above your opponent in a shotgun fight, or above and at an angle in front of your opponent (like looking down at a 45 degree angle towards your opponent).

When above an opponent and looking down at them, you "effectively" see more of their head than their body, which in turns makes it far more likely to land precision hits on the opponent than when facing them on the ground at head-level. With Full Choke, you can't do precision damage, and I've found that Full Choke shotguns are WORSE for in-air use because of this than shotguns with no Full Choke. Again, this is anecdotal experience and I haven't done a full suite of testing, but this is something that I think should be explored more in-depth when discussing the "best" shotgun barrels for PvP.

TL;DR: If you use vertical space heavily in PvP, Full Choke may actually be a "bad" choice because it removes the ability to do precision damage, and hitting crits with a shotgun is actually quite easy when you are above an opponent and shooting down.

7
bunduruguy•

Just want to add that FC only reduces headshot damage, not removes it (I think reduces from 1.10x to 1.07x).

2
WCMaxiOP•

How much does the pellet to kill change? If that's significant enough, then for arial play may benefit from Rifled Barrel and range trifecta. I would say however, even with Icarus Mod you're widening the spread by jumping so you're likely in a 3m to 4m fight anyway, at which point, the pellet volume is likely the same.

1
WCMaxiOP•

I only check what can be verified with observation, damage fall off distance and pellet spread due to range change.

I think most current bias is due to previously established mental models which tell us range is boss. The other would be, if I'm used to a barrel for to some number is games with it, my results with that will be superior to any comparison until I've adjusted to the alternative. The final would be confirmation bias, due to the game's RNG we're more likely to report a success with what we think would be successful over accurate verification. Not saying I'm flawless here, but I did get as many Decree rolls as I could to do these tests.

1
bacon-tornado•

Thanks for putting this out there. Similar to what I was messing around with a couple months ago, but I was using Darci and 2 friends in private match. Your max range is a bit higher than mine, and I found aggressives to get the kill more often, but it wasn't a big difference, like half meter. I just assumed the more impact.

But all in all we both came to the conclusion each archetype is range capped allowing to find snappier shotguns instead of sluggish ones. And assault mag is definitely my preferred mag option. +10% rof, I'll take it.

2
WCMaxiOP•

I didn't list a PvP OHTK distance... Or didn't mean to. Merely were range cap hits. When you consider falloff and cap, I think you're looking at -1m or -0.5m from falloff cap to practical OHTK.

1
bacon-tornado•

Ya I haven't been on line since last week and was pumped to try out the firing range myself after hearing about it so now I probably won't thanks to you lol. Seriously, thanks for putting the effort in, and hopefully it gains traction so we don't need to see shotgun posts once a week. At least until possible changes down the road anyway.

2
WCMaxiOP•

More people verifying the better. Especially considering what's being questioned is 3 or more years of an established mental model.

2
smokey6953140•

Your findings are amazing and it's great to see some flavor in shotguns with this tested range cap. The only thing I feel that can be attested, is that full choke is as said when your full ads'd for that millisecond is pellet for pounds, but I find more success in rifled if I'm aping and swingshoting or just generally moving in a high mobility loadout. In these situations I find full choke failing. I have a mind benders; range mw/fullchoke/smallbore/rifled, light mag/ quickdraw and snapshot. I think this is the argument that people choose one barrel over another. I think fullchoke has a mini type of stall where movement nulifys its tight spreads, where rifled is the same as standing or moving. So apes and high sensitivity movements prosper with other barrels than full choke. Like it's kind of like an ads'd version of firmly planted.

2
WCMaxiOP•

Very jealous of that roll... but Full Choke has no known negative hit to handling while Rifled does. However, having QD and Snap together means you nullify all negative handling effects.

1
smokey6953140•

Thank you! And congrats on your research. But, No I meant while I'm moving. Like full choke has a moving penalty If I run a 9 mobility and turn my sensitivity up to 9 i whiff shots all day with full choke. Where as rifled I dont see that negative. But when i run a high recovery high resilience slow build full choke reaches through for a knockout punch over rifled. Just my thoughts why there is an argument to each his own on the barrel subject. But I do feel slideshot and opening shot only give that plus 1. But I wonder how stacks of rampage and swash buckler ramp up. Like rampage x3 can create the extra meter. Does SB x5 give a 1.5 meter or will damage multipliers still have a cap range also of 9 total.

2
WCMaxiOP•

Is this a console thing or a PC thing (all tested I did was on PC)? I've been using shotties a while, both those barrels and have seen no such feel. You're not talking about hipfiring, right?

Impact should influence OHTK, but range cap is range cap. Only Opening Shot seems to break that.

1
smokey6953140•

Console and I swap from high mobility builds to low mobility builds because I'm a warlock main. Depending on the lobby weapons strafe speed is better where low mobility has a better warlock skating to close gaps. When boosting low mobility full choke works better, where the high mobility with traction, I run a higher sensitivity to swingshot and jump and 180 shoot and rifled barrel performs better here like full choke has a moving violation. Also mod of choice is icarus and no extra handling from an exotic, no traction T-steps yet, and I dont agree with ophidians melee.

1
GIJared•

FWIW I play high mobility hunter on console(big surprise there) and have the exact same roll on mindbenders as you. It’s notcieably more consistent with rifled. So much so that I originally got this a year ago during the first farm and have vaulted it numerous times after being disappointed while using full choke.

It wasn’t until I tried rifled a few weeks ago after hearing it might be better and now I’ll never put it down. It’s the most consistent shotgun I’ve used in D2 and I’ve almost never had a moment where it leaves me going “how was that not a kill?”

1
smokey6953140•

Right I'm happy with maxi's finding with range and spread but I'm not happy with the full on promotion of full choke. I think to promote a one all perk is wrong. If you are a slow build and can fully achieve full ads without flinch full choke will be king. But any movement/burst/high sensitivity/high mobility/ or flinch= rifled barrel is better.

2
alfynokes•

Hope this isn't a daft question, but I thought Full Choke only tightened the spread while ADS'ed, so Snapshot would still be required right? Other barrels might be better options for more vertical/mobile/ Icarus builds right?

By the way, absolutely brilliant work!

2
WCMaxiOP•

All testing assumes ADS only which is why my conclusion is FC + handling boosting perks is the ideal. This all depends on what the gun offers, but likely FC, Assault Mag, Snap, QD or Snap, Slide is the best in class.

2
LeadSled11999•

Have you tested stability and/or steady rounds impact on pellet spread?

2
WCMaxiOP•

Yes. The effect of Steady Rounds to give negative range was used to determine the floor and also checked for spread influence. Stability has no influence on spread.

1
Zlukk•

What a quality post! Thank you! Btw, does full auto trigger system perk affect the OHK range?

2
WCMaxiOP•

No. Bungie changed that one with the last shotty nerf.

1
TheRealC-Cut•

Can I get a TL;DR to make sure I am understanding things correctly? I have a DRB, Retold Tale, and others that I constantly go back and forth with but want to make sure I am running the optimal setup and not being an idiot. LOL

1
WCMaxiOP•

Full Choke is the only perk truly required. Everything else should be some to improve handling so you ADS quicker to enjoy the benefit of Full Choke.

2
TheRealC-Cut•

Thanks, appreciate it

2
VinoAgnolo•

Fr I can go back to full choke on my drb? I've been abusing the menagerie tryna get a rifled barrel drb and got one with rifled barrel assault mag field prep and snapshot. Was fully willing to infuse my original full choke drb with 1000+ crucible kill count but this means I don't have to?

1
WCMaxiOP•

If stick to your Full Choke for sure.

2
VinoAgnolo•

Thank you for the insight my dude! 👍

2
skippedwords•

you still play this game Jason??

1
WCMaxiOP•

More than I should. Certainly better than it was in Y1 and still way better on PC.

1
IgnorantPlebs•

:cries in LoW:

1
-scuzzlebutt-•

Thanks for the post and testing. I have been saying this for months, but people get outdated info burned in the brain and never do testing or read info that doesn't confirm their biases/ The SG recommendation in shardit are painful to read. Range range range....

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So if range affect the spread, and you don't have full choke, is there still diminishing returns on range or is the effect so small don't worry about it? I know testing small difference is nearly impossible for something with RNG involved.

1
WCMaxiOP•

From my testing, range had no discernable effect on cap. In terms of spread, it is worth the investment.

2