It would make sense as Germans didn't really want to get into a long protracted war of attrition like in WWI. If you stall the Germans long enough as France or Poland they should get morale penalties that affect their organisation and attack
Posted Jul 18, 2019, 4:10 PM UTC
France needs a complete overhaul.
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They've been left behind while the game has added things like war support, strikes, and mutinies with all the decisions. To be aggressive as France or even really prepare properly, you've got to balance a lot of what you do to avoid getting a strike or mutinies. It all hinges on PP which you have so very little of until you remove the massive negative modifier.
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As it is now, France is just a piece of meat for Germany to eat up by 1940 and it just gives the Germans a ton of factories and all that steel and aluminum.
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I honestly don't know how you could lose to France if you went after them before 1941. Just go around the Maginot and its a joke. They can't outproduce you and they're so gimped on doctrine and war support that the war should be over in no time.
From my perspective it's more about playing as France. You're never really able to push into Germany properly unless they've lost all their manpower to the soviets. I feel like if France survives long enough to stabilise itself then they should be able to be as strong as Germany.
Right now Germany's insane buffs make it hard to actually fight them offensively
I play as France a lot. I just finished a very long game as them. I do "World on Fire" scenarios where I set everyone to "random" in the custom rules and just see how it goes.
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France should stabilize rather quickly if they can hold the line, especially say, if they can reinforce in Belgium and the Netherlands. They should actually be out-producing Germany in 1940, but the 1936 scenario isn't set up for this.
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Look at the OOB's for the respective countries in the 1939 scenario. France has a ton of light tanks and even like 150 heavies. They are ready for war. But as a player, and I've done France dozens of times, I don't believe I've ever actually been anywhere near as ready as the France in the 1939 scenario.
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I strongly believe this is because Paradox wants Germany to eat France and be the major player in the war and drive all other nations. The steel and aluminum they get from France is what keeps their production of tanks and planes so damn high.
I strongly believe this is because Paradox wants Germany to eat France and be the major player in the war and drive all other nations.
Yeah I agree. I think Germany is intentionally OP and France is intentionally UP so that the actual WW2 scenario will play out rather than Germany losing to France each time
Precisely why I'd like to see an overhaul.
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Like you suggested in the OP, maybe behind a time lock, or a just a branch of the tree that unlocks some ridiculous bonuses like 30 free factories and a bunch of manpower.
This always bugs me, the Germans had infamous logistical issues and the fact that they fight the same in 1939 and 1941 against a fortress France, USSR or even Poland is just fiction. Their strength was lighting warfare. So many problems would arise if they didn't win in 6 months tops
Yeah, if they didn't take France so quickly they would have been royally screwed. France would have had time to organise and the Germans could never beat them on equipment. France was the second largest tank producer before the war after the USSR.
Like you said, if France had 6 months to organise and form a strategy, Germans would have had no chance in a prolonged conflict.
Germany's reputation as juggernaut military power (while certainly earned by stuff like the 1940 encirclement of the Allies and the initial gains in the USSR) belies all the breaks they caught. They never had to beat the Maginot, caught Stalin unprepared, avoided a costly war for Czechoslovakia, and made gains against unprepared British troops in Egypt. Otherwise, theres a reason why Germany was the 5rh largest army in Berlin in May 1945.
playing as Germany and not being able to capitulate France < 6 months
Might as well uninstall lol 🤔. I personally can beat up Poland, the Benelux, France and the UK within half a year of starting ww2 in 1939.
You might as well uninstall then too seeing as you're the grandmaster player. No sense playing anymore when you're already perfect.
Bruh the ai in this game is not very good. Haven't you heard of multiplayer mode before lmaooo
I'm aware, but you could at least offer some advice or constructive criticism instead of telling them to uninstall and then brag about yourself.
First, there's already a dynamic in the game that prompts Germany to start a war sooner than later: MEFO bills. The PP penalty becomes debilitating if you wait too long.
Second, it would lessen the freedom of strategic choice to induce the player of Germany to start a war sooner than he/she would prefer. The game is a sandbox and when to start the war is an important strategic choice for someone playing Germany.
As Germany, you do get penalized by waiting in that France and Poland are a lot more powerful in 1942 than 1937 (or whatever). The optimal window in terms of Germany's readiness versus France/Poland's readiness for attacking is somewhere between those two extremes.
FWIW, I seldom get into stalemated, wars of attrition when invading Poland or France/Benelux. There's almost always an out-of-the-box solution to a stalemate (e.g., naval invasion of Marseille or a naval invasion of western Netherlands via Eastern North Sea, etc). Poland, in particular, is relatively later in the game (especially if they're fighting simultaneously with the USSR).
Tbf if you don't capitulate zchzekoslohv9ahkheea fast enough you break out into a civil war so it seems like they could implement something similar.
France is somewhat overpowered, you can take UK + Germany Pre-1939. Also I’ve noticed that France’s only job is to wait until the British reinforce the border or anther nation joins the war. If you don’t take France Before 1941, it’s basically impossible to defeat.
"If you don’t take France Before 1941, it’s basically impossible to defeat." My 40 width tanks says otherwise.
Maybe it’s just that I don’t use tanks at all until like 1945-1948
Not exactly. As Germany i decided to wait at the border until 1941ish. The way to beat France after they get going is to take out the UK, which you can do by liberal use of naval planes over the channel and completely obliterating their navy. Which was so much fun when in one battle they lost 4 carriers. Anyway, if you land in UK and conquer it you should naval invade France and force another front. It’ll weaken them immensely to the point that you should be able to capitulate them as well if you drive towards Paris. With them having to deal with three fronts (German East, German North ((Invasion)) and Italy) they become too spread out.
They nees a debuff anyway
Mmm no.
I dont think Germany should get debuffs, but rather France should get buffs after 6 months. And then mainly in industry. It always bugged me just how weak the economy from France is, they have 6 mil factories at the start of the game and only 35 civs, and they have no political power at all till they complete a focus that takes atleast a few year to get to.
So if anything, France should get a focus like the UK ''shadow scheme'' one with the exection that France version will only kick in 6 months after the war.
Altrough to be honest, if Germany cannot beat Poland or France fast enough they dont realy need penalties since they are screwed either way.
I like this idea. France gets focuses unlocked for being uncapitulated at war. I think it should be an attack/defense on core territory buff and add military factories. However, if they get a certain amount of casualties by the end of the month, they should get penalties.
Personaly I am not that big of fan of national spirits that give attack / defense bonuses on core terretory. It makes it all feel more artificial. A nation should win cause they used better tactics, their troops where more expierenced, they had better equiptment or more doctrines researched. A nation should not win cause for some reason they get ''high morale, +10% attack on core land'', only in specific circumstations should that be used to replicate real life scenarios (like Marco Polo incident and corrupt army in the Japanese Chineese war)
A big reason right now why France always dies to quick is cause they have a shit industry, bad doctrine reserach and bad army command. If France would get more industry it would allow them to properly equipt their army, witch is one of the or the most important thing when building an army.