Fountain pens versus dip pens

So I've been using a fountain pen for a number of years now, but I'd decided to give a dip pen a go. Off the bat, it's an el cheapo not even a name type deal, but it does not seem to work well at all. I dip, I write. The first letter or two is feathering like I threw ink at the page, but by the end of the word it's bone dry and illegible. Is this normal? Or a fault of the ink or pen? Or am I doing something wrong? As I said, the pen is too cheap to even have a brand name, so a likely culprit, but the ink is Noodlers Baystate Blue. Is there a special ink for dip pens vice fountain pens? Thank you!

Posted Jul 29, 2019, 2:13 AM UTC

715
diddlyfool•

Dip pens do use a different kind of ink, usually you'll see it sold as India ink, or calligraphy ink and such. Windsor and newton make a lot of well liked ink, but any calligraphy ink will do. It's made to be more viscous than fountain pen ink, and will flow off the nib more easily. Baystate blue is known to be really wet which is probably the cause of the feathering. Most fountain pen inks aren't great for dip nibs, but some work ok. You'll have to experiment to find something that works well for you.

Make sure you clean your nibs with rubbing alcohol so the ink doesn't just bead up on the surface. You need to see a smooth amount of ink clinging to the underside. New nibs will also have a coating on them which will need a little more cleaning. Grease from your fingers will also repel the ink so you often have to clean it again after changing the nib in the holder. Once you get everything set up right though they are fantastic tools for calligraphy and especially pen and ink drawing. Also make sure to clean the nib after you're done, so it doesn't corrode as quickly.

11
asciiaardvark•

Most fountain pen inks aren't great for dip nibs

You can add gum arabic to the ink to thicken it so it works better with dip nibs... just don't put that mix in a fountain pen - mix in a little vial and label it "dip pen only".

2
diddlyfool•

Good idea actually I hadn't thought of that. Thanks for sharing!

2
PandaProzac•

Have you tried this? It feels like the gum merely increases the surface tension for me, like I'd have to add obscene amounts of gum arabic for it to actually thicken the ink notably.

2
asciiaardvark•

Yea -- I did add quite a lot of the gum... I don't remember precise proportions as I've mostly moved to dip nibs on fountain pens & dip nibs with feeds.

2
Onimward•

Can you give more information about the dip pen you are using? Is it a glass dip pen, or one using metallic nibs?

Dip pens with metallic nibs, which is the default assumption, are a combination of a holder and a compatible nib of your choice. You buy those separately, and attach the nib you want. Can you tell us anything about either one? Well, in particular the nib, since the holder has no influence on the ink flow. What nib did you buy?

Did you remove the anti-rust nib coating? That will prevent proper ink flow. Is the nib otherwise clean and free of rust? If there's any corrosion, you need to swap with a fresh nib.

Fountain pen inks aren't used that much with fountain pens. The formulation, while safe for fountain pens and their feed systems, is too thin and runny for dip pens. You can use them, but it could be tricky especially if you are using a pointed nib and flexing it. With dip nibs you are using typically different formulations, such as premade drawing or calligraphy inks. Or you could add a binder to the FP ink to stop it from running so much.

7
[deleted]•

It's a metal nib, unfortunately I have no information about it, as it happened to just come with some other stuff I ordered a while ago, and threw in a box. I didn't do anything about anti rust coating, so I'll try washing it, but it sounds like the ink formula may be the main culprit.

2
PandaProzac•

Dip nibs differ enormously between different types and brands, it's a bit of a trial and error in the beginning! I have one that I like, and I only use that one. They can hold different amounts of ink, flow differently and flex very different amounts. If I may recommend my favourite I suggest you give the Brause Steno/361 (aka Blue pumpkin) a try!

Also as others have said, fp ink is way harder to work with. I use W&N calligraphy inks mostly. But even if you use fp ink it shouldn't feather, what paper are you using?

3
[deleted]•

I've tried several options from parchment to printer paper to cardstock

2
asciiaardvark•

The first letter or two is feathering like I threw ink at the page, but by the end of the word it's bone dry and illegible.

  1. as others have said, clean the oil off the nib first. I like to pass the nib over a lighter flame, others say that may dis-temper the nib and recommend scrubbing with toothpaste or another method.
  2. use a thicker ink, like India Ink. Or add gum arabic to your fountain pen ink (and don't use that mix in a fountain pen)

You may also have a gravity problem -- where the ink is pulled off the nib too fast. They used angled tables so the capillary action would be the only thing pulling on the ink.

 

If you find you like dip nibs:

  • a couple companies make dip-nib fountain pens: Desiderata, Ackerman, Osprey.
  • FlexableNibFactory has screw-in bock/jowo nib units designed for dip nibs.
  • a couple craftsfolk make dip nib holders designed to take a nib + feed.
  • you can get dip nibs with a spring solderd/welded to the bottom to hold more ink

...I have all of those. Dip nibs are fun, but I wanted more ink capacity ;)

3
LVCSSlacker•

If I recall, dip pen nibs may have a coat of oil around them to keep them from rusting. I was told some toothpaste and a tissue would be able to remove that. It's the lightest bit of abrasion...

​

I'll have to look into my notes with it, because it's late night, and I don't feel like rooting around in my dip pen box. A few nibs are very finickey, so it's something to be aware of too. This is something I'll try to revist when I wake up.

2
HandstandsMcGoo•

This is true

Dip in ink, wipe with tissue, dip in ink, wipe with tissue

Then you’re good to go, dip and write

3
LVCSSlacker•

I've lost that notebook somewhere.. I'll keep looking for it to see if I can find it.

2
HandstandsMcGoo•

Wat

2
HandstandsMcGoo•

You’re using the wrong ink

Try some Daniel Smith Walnut ink and see how that does

2