Source
r/thedivision•
CryptonomousTheGreat

Gila Guard is OP, it provides too many stats through extra Mods (mods are OP & Pure RnG) with no loss of Attribute Power, it's the reason the 3-11-7 exists in the first place.

Discussion

This is a PvP focused Post.

Tell me please what other mask can compete with Gila?

400 SP, with HP or HZP AND a Mod Slot with potential of another 500 SP for a Skill !! Really? Only Gear set masks have mods other than Gila? Why? You can get 1k for a skill just from the mask.

Murakami is a poor man's Gila in EVERY SLOT.

Gila Knees - The UNDISPUTED best knees in the game, unless u go for a niche build you can't afford to use anything other than Gila.

Gila Knees roll the same Base Armour values, Same Attribute values but also come with 2 Blue mods!! Nothing else competes. They need to roll without a Talent to balance the Mod but even then...

Gila Chestpiece - Only Alps competes with it, it has 6 main stats to add to the build, NOTHING ELSE CAN. Alps can compete because it rolls absurdly high Attributes for when u don't need the extra stats.

Gila Holster - The only balanced Piece, it TRADES a Talent with 2 Red Mods, if it wasn't for Compensated or the fact that Fenris still holds the throne it would also be a must.

Gila Gloves - Almost balanced, if it wasn't for the fact it rolls with a Blue stat AND a Yellow MOD it would be ok. It should be 1 stat or the other NO MOD, or introduce mods to other brand sets to balance. BTSU competes!

Gila Backpack - The Hardest piece in the game to get, 2 Talents you must have it roll with, 2 types, Gila Inventory you'd want a Yellow Attribute, Gila Big Horn you'd want a Red Attribute.

Farm for years to get one then a vendor sells a god roll one... Or get lucky like me and find a proper one randomly after farming players.

It also is far too good, a total of 5 Stat points has no other piece competing. Alps can compete but you'd need that Gila Chest. Murakami if you are a peasant.

The 3-11-7 has ruined all DPS centric build diversity, the only other builds that can compete are explosive spam builds and they have no proper counter, no way to stack Explosive Resistance reliably, no way to EMP reliably.

If Gila were to be toned down you'd piss off the PvE crew, if the other sets gained Mods or Stronger Attributes for lacking mods/talents then it could be the solution.

Opinions please.

Posted Aug 20, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

038
MrRud•

there are several issues at play here:

- OTR procs with Chem Launcher charges still available, this is counter to the idea of the talent, which should be a "last resort" measure for a skill build with skills on CD. OTR should be changed (I would bump the requirement to 9 Utility)

- Compensated/OTR and 3 red attributes give 15% + 25% + 12+ (gloves) + 12% (chest, taking a decent roll, can go higher) + 9% (backpack, again, can go higher) = 73% bonus weapon damage. At this point, additional Bonus WP gets into "diminishing returns" territory.

- In terms of multiplicative damage, Spotter gives you a guaranteed 1.2 multiplier. Comparatively. given the formula

1 + (.25 + CHD) * CHC

At 60% Crit Hit Chance, you have a 1.15 multiplier. To match the Spotter Multiplier, you would need to have 60% CHC and 34% CHD, which means an investment of at least 5 red attributes, which is, frankly, ridiculous.

- Spotter now stacks with OTR.

- 3-piece Gila bonus is Pulse SP

So yeah, i don't think Gila itself is the issue: having an attribute-rich set is fine as you would have diminishing returns at the 4th piece onward. I would say that some pieces are ridiculous (like the comparison with the Murakami BP), but I don't think the problem is the Set itself.

The truth is that Massive over-nerfed Critical Damage way to much in TU2 and threw the entire Red <-> Blue balance out the window. Without creating a proper spectrum in which offensive and defensive attributes can provide meaningful differences in damage and health, the PvP balance will always be messed up.

13
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

I have also been toying with the idea to raise OTR to 9Y, it would deffo push it to the next tier and prevent it to be used with DPS builds, barring Chem with it would also partially solve that yes. Agreed.

Spotter is too good IMO but I'll make a separate post for that, I think 15% would be a good place to bring it down to.

Crit is dead not only because of piss port balancing between the 2 types but also because of crit range which in theory is a good idea but in practise terrible. That is if you don't have a way of manipulating the lower end.

If we had a way to reduce lower range to let's say 8m or 5m then maybe crit can be viable on all weapon types

But yes lowering Crit/HSD then introducing the Armour percentage broke the balance baaad.

Headshot damage is additive to other HSD and values simply aren't high enough to warrant the roll.

Crit damage is at least 3 times lower than what it should be.

4
superbar47PC•

Nerf spotter and on the ropes so that offensive mods or weapon damages is more effective in dealing damage, cuz in pvp people just stack armor and even run one offensive and rely all there damages from spotter or on the ropes

4
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

Even if you nerf them people will still use it.

If you prevented use of all BiS talents in 1 build you open up build diversity massively

0
TrzebiatHazard Immunity :Contaminated:•

Gear is not a problem, PvP is the problem, and problems of PvP shouldn't affect PvE. Compensated + On the Ropes too OP in PvP? If they would be normalized in PvP then maybe it wouldn't be so mandatory to build around 3 red and 7 yellow. On another hand, normalization is also fucked up with only recalibrated attributes getting normalized. Unbreakable was getting too strong in ODZ? It got normalized there too, so I wouldn't be surprised if Compensated and On the Ropes would also receive normalization there.

3
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

Normalization is a fundamentally flawed system which I also have a solution for but it's grandiose. TD3 kind of thing.

If you can discuss the topic in question without Normalization I would be more than happy to entertain it.

1
mywik•

Tell me please what other mask can compete with Gila?

Wyvern in a crit build off the top of my head.

Gila knee pads can't roll red. They are NOT the undisputed best in the game. No clutch build would ever run them. No sniper build would ever run them.

Fenris chest (stridsväst to be exact with a red slot) with hard hitting and berserk is better than a gila chest damage wise.

Gila backpack cant roll 2 passives. Who cares about active backpack talents if you cant activate any of them? Wyvern and 5.11 are just as good if not better than gila backpacks for that reason alone.

Gila is nice but in no way op or better than others in general.

2
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

"This is a PvP focused post"

Should I have written ONLY?

Reds on kneepads in PvP is suicide.

Wyvern anywhere in a PvP build is outdone by Gila.

Fenris chest is OK for PvP but Fenris Holster is the preferred slot, you also can't have 3-11-7 with Fenris Chest.

Why would you lose OTR for a shitty passive talent on the bag in PvP?

Nvm you can't read.

-11
mywik•

I dont really see why you would get condescending. At no point in my post did i attack you or your opinion. I gave mine. So just chill a bit buddy.

Also this game doesnt only exist in pvp (the opposite is true - pvp is an afterthought). You have to look at more than only one of the aspects to get a full picture. Im perfectly fine with the fact that gila is good in pvp and mediocre in pve. Thats my opinion on the matter. If you dont like it ... tough luck.

Im sorry if you are looking for an echo chamber instead of actual opinions. Have a nice day.

6
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

Yeah sorry about that, should been nicer, but maybe don't go off on a wild tangent?

And I'm deffo not looking for an echo chamber, your comment was just irrelevant, that is all.

It's not just that Gila is good in PvP, it's just that you are forced to reach the high reqs the Devs implemented and any other brand set simply can't compete coz they don't have mods like the way Gila does.

Not only do the mods allow u to reach reqs but they also provide much more power to the build than an equivalent attribute from another brand set not to mention it's in addition to equivalent number of attributes so the amount of extra power cannot be ignored.

Like I said in the post I don't want to piss off the PvE crew with nerfs but it's far easier to nerf a few things than to buff everything else.

However I don't care for either. All I want is a solution to a problem.

-1
mywik•

The problem isnt gila guard. The problem is the focus on high armor and health in pvp. Nerfing gila doesnt change that. People would jump to the next set that provides most effective hp.

In my personal opinion pvp imbalance isnt solved by nerfs to existing gear options (especially cause that fucks over pve) but desperately needs a redesign in general. TTK must be adjusted. Damage modifiers have to be adjusted and there needs to be more pvp focussed talents.

2
lowanheart:Playstation:•

Wow, be more of a wanker.

5
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

How? He missed the point entirely but IM the wanker?

-1
edmundane•

You asked for opinions. He gave his. And to me he did a really good job of breaking it down to show gila isn’t always best in slot in various situations. Just because he didn’t agree that gila is too strong doesn’t mean he missed the point.

As others have mentioned, 3-11-7 being a thing isn’t what’s wrong. If just having more attributes means you’re stronger, you’d see everyone running around with ongoing directive.

Red rolls being weak and OTR spotter getting too much dps for stacking blues and yellows is the main issue when it comes to pvp build diversity. Self healing being too strong is another.

2
Ragaraja14•

I would like to know what damage focused build you want to play. Is that berserk+clutch? One-shot sniper?, SMG? 2-pieces TP build??

Just curious.

1
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

None of those, solving Gila would create new builds using only SOME of the 3-11-7.

The talents are all there, it's just you can use ALL the best ones in 1 build.

The talent requirements are partly to blame, Gila enables you to reach them.

Remember the reqs were changed but number of stats on brand sets weren't.

You didn't need Gila before like that, now you do.

Either lower the reqs or reduce the difference of stats between Gila and not Gila.

2
Ragaraja14•

I agree the Gila has too many slots, but I think what should they do is to nerf some talents.

As you can see, devs nerfed the shotgun in July. However what makes double barrel so op was not its’ damage coefficient (1.65 I believe) was its’ talent - premeditated.

Premeditated can exist in chamber for 10 seconds. Double barrel with jazz hand its reload time can go down to 1.9 secs. That was a long time in PvP, and there were some voices to nerf premed instead of shotguns, but it got overwhelmed so that’s how it got nerfed in general.

I’ve heard some agents wanted to nerf compensated after first wave of talent adjustment (the one with unstoppable force), but we’ll see.

1
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

I think compensated doesn't help the meta at all.

Personally I would rework it and possibly even move it to the backpack so it competes with OTR.

Starting at 10 Blues. For each less blue you gain 3% weapon damage.

It'll be the ideal glass cannon talent.

And it'll still live by the name Compensated

3
Ragaraja14•

Sounds like solid idea. Overall I agree some players commented that On the Ropes is too easy to proc’d at this moment.

One chem drop on the feet and players are done with 50% activation for On the Ropes, and it shouldn’t work it in this way.

But move a talent to different gear slot would probably stir up players’ build preference in PvP. I like that

2
blackghast:Tech:•

PVP is the problem, not Gila.

1
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

You will need to elaborate on that.

1
blackghast:Tech:•

Well here's the thing, because currently PVP means having super mega high armor/health, of course the set of items that are more focused towards allowing that to happen are going to appear op.

In other words it's not the tool that's the problem, it's the people and the medium in which it is used.

Like you said, nerfing Gila is not going to go well in PVE, and generally speaking, low work effort options aren't going to work (like just slashing down armor roll in pvp or whatever). There needs to be time invested in making something better for pvp in terms of how items work, maybe even have completely different set bonuses and mod slots than the PVE counterpart.

2
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

because currently PVP means having super mega high armor/health

Well actually it's not.

It's about having super mega Damage thru talents, super mega armour, AND super mega Skill Power.

It's ALL THREE, that's the problem.

of course the set of items that are more focused towards allowing that to happen are going to appear op.

But it allows it in a way no other set can can match, that's a problem I'm highlighting.

2
blackghast:Tech:•

I know what you're pointing towards, but again, as you also said, changing something that can be used in pve to suit pvp more or the other way around will always, always impact the other, most likely in a negative way.

Yes, it's annoying that people can go for both tankyness and damage, but it's the optimal way to go now, until they change more inherent things about PVP engagements.

So, again, I don't see a problem with the way the current Gila is, it's just that generally speaking the items, which are more PVE balanced, should have completely different stats/talents/rolls/everything when put into pvp. But you are right in that PVP should be more than just one-way build.

IMO you shouldn't even have "builds" in pvp in terms of armor/hp, skills making more the difference between what people do together with a weapon's damage/rof/recoil/accuracy.

Blacklight's weapon modding would make more sense too in this regard for Division 2...

1
xBoneyard123x•

Why nerf anything, just make a 3-11-7 build with these pieces and enjoy it 🤪

1
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

That's what I have been doing, it gets stake after a while having to use the same build to compete at PvP.

I'm farming endlessly for BTSU but no luck yet so I can't make those crazy Explosive Builds...

1
xBoneyard123x•

I have the gloves and don’t use them.. you can make a good explosive build/ assault turret without them and solo heroic missions with no problem

1
CryptonomousTheGreatOP•

I'm not interested in fArMinG SoLo Her0iCs

Boring.

Like I said to the other guy.

"This is a PvP focused post"

I can solo anything with my PvP 2-11-8 build.

1
Jaf918:Playstation:Dark_Lethe :Rogue:•

My biggest complaint is with the OTR talent. I think it's a prime example of a good idea that's been delivered like a hot shit.

The problem is, it's too easy to meet the requirements for it, and it's actually quite counter-productive to a skill builder! Skill builders need 2 things, Skill power and Skill haste. So OTR is meant to give a skiller a buff for what? the 9.8 seconds they have for their seekers to reset?

I think this talent needs to be changed completely. If the requirements are raised to 9 or 11 yellow, it can help with build diversity, but would render the talent even more useless, because then the only people who could activate it are the one's who'd only get to use it for 3-10 seconds at a time

1