Me standing up to the older man touching me in the hottub
Posted Sep 2, 2019, 3:43 AM UTC
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Are you ok?
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Yes and thank you.(I just posted the story if interested)
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I’m so happy we’re doing this more often. Let them know there are consequences. Report. Fight back! Great job sister. It’s not always screaming fights. Sometimes it’s speaking your mind and telling everyone. You’re doing a great job.
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Thanks I'm hoping that the few women in earshot (who just sat stunned and shocked at the exchange) have some ammo now if they ever are put in a situation.
I just wasn't having him try and play me off like I'm overreacting or derail it onto something else. The main trick I've found with harassers: ALWAYS bring it back to what they did wrong. Cuz that's what they're trying to run from.
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There I was sitting in the public hot tub with my own jet when a larger older man came Into the hot tub and sat uncomfortably close. Then he starts brushing up on my leg and arm and hand.
I told him to stop.
He said "stop what"
"Stop touching me. I'm not giving another warning."-me
"I have arthritis, I can't help myself if I'm touching you" (I'd like to make a point here that yes, he could have sat further away with the full understanding he has this known condition. Also, I didn't mention this to him as it's not the point nor anyone's bloody business but I have early onset diagnosis of arthritis too. Yet I somehow don't find myself running into such situations as producing uncomfortable circumstances for other people in a public hot tub to have to use such an excuse.)
"That's not an excuse" - me
He then told me "oh fuck off. I can't believe this"
I told him to stop using foul language.
Then I saw a lifeguard walking by and requested assistance. I let them know he was using foul language and repeated what he had said to me. They went to get a supervisor.
While that was happening I instructed this man doing this this was not a negotiation, this was not a debate, this is not a conversation, this was a woman requesting a man to stop touching me. I then i informed him a logical option would have been to apologise and stop doing it. Not defend it.
He then spits a very unconvincing apology.
I said "bit late now to be taking the path of least resistance, you could have lead with it and be done with this"
"This never happened to me before" he says.
I said "someone standing up to you?"
"Yes you should stand up if you think that's what is happening" - him (very sarcastically)
"Don't dismiss me and my concern about what happens to my body" - me
"Im a grand father" - him
"And that in no way addresses this situation for what it is. You respect a person's space regardless" - me
"I don't respect a person until they've earned it" - him
(...wait...so he actually thinks women need to earn the respect of safe space?? He feels so entitled to touching a womans body we need to earn the right to not get groped???)
Just then the Supervisor came. We explained to him what happened. Man denied touching me, then I called out his arthritis excuse "remember?"
Then the guy finally reveals this was all because he wanted my jet. So it turns out he's muscling me out of my spot. Note: he had his own jet. There were plenty of jets available in the hot tub as it was not busy at this time.
the supervisor asked me to come with him and took me aside.
I gave him the run down that I was in the hottub when the man came in beside me uncomfortably close and started rubbing up against me. Supervisor says some people can be stubborn. I explained to him how touching a woman and a woman saying to stop comes with no exception. touching someone who doesn't want to be touched isn't a negotiation. Supervisor agreed with me on that. And that he's going to go talk to the man now. I went into the leisure area of the pool to cool off.
Supervisor seemed to take some time to discuss with the man, then comes to me about 10 minutes later and lets me know he chatted with him. Seems from his understanding of the situation during the talk, he had to explain to the man that the hot tub is to be shared and that he doesn't "own" it so I can just imagine how that conversation went.
Supervisor asked me to keep my distance from this man. I do hope he said the same to the man. But he did say to me to come to him immediately if this man approaches me again.
i do understand that some older men do this to be aggressive, they'd know and learned early to press that button to bully women unfairly using touch. It might not necessarily be meant as sexual harassment. The man got agressive over a jet.. But it is harassment extorting a known style of sexual harassment for how it makes people feel insafe in nature. Any harassment regardless of reasoning or how close to the line they can skate is wrong.
Supervisor did extend empathy of what it must be like for women sometimes in public spaces and did commend that I do speak up.
I had the spine I do today cuz I am an older woman, I also know what it was like to be a quieter younger women feel like being exposed to that. I started from somewhere.(and I hate that it has to happen at all)
Sorry it's so long.
You're a badass and this dude is an asshole. I have a painful muscle disease and I do just fine not harassing or sexually assaulting anyone every single day.
“I wanted her jet” is such a lame excuse and attempt to redirect away from the fact that he was touching you. Seems like it worked too, with the focus of the managers conversation being about sharing the hot tub rather than not being a fucking creep who touches people without permission.
Good for you, a shame he caused it at all.
Also, if the root of the issue for him was "You're sitting in my spot", couldn't he have just...asked you about it?
Do you feel inclined to follow it up with a police report? Understand if you want to move on and have done. But a grandfather with a family needs a wake-up call from this bullshit. So sorry you were assaulted like this.
I'm still not sure.
before writing this out I was struggling with the idea on what to do. I was still so pissed off about it.
I do feel like the supervisor heard me.
The dude was exposed for what he was doing wrong. So it was satisfactory.
since I wrote this out, I.. still am not entirely sure. I think I may send a letter like this to the facilities to inform them this is what happened. At least so it's in writing.
I want to only go to the police on the chance that I'm not safe. That's my goal about this. I swim there often and I want to feel safe in my own space.
As for him learning the lesson that could get time consuming and I value my time, energy and effort too much to waste on figuring what it takes to fix his conscience. TBH I really don't want to think about him, his family, his grandpaness, whatever the hell that had to do with touching people(still wtf) ..why he does something and how to psychologically play against his monstrous thoughts. That is his brain. I thankfully don't have to live with it. I have my own life to live though and I want it peaceful. Without him harassing me.
So my question here is how safe would I feel if I go in there and he's there again?
Would he feel enough power to try to push it?
Possibly.
I now have a history on the same guy involving a supervisor and also informing the facilities so if he does push it, it would probably go worse for him.
and is it enough tho?
a police report/record would be a better form of protection. If they take it seriously ,,
You're possibly right. I'd want it for protection more than for spite over whatever the fuck he's going on with in his brain. I just want him to leave me alone.
On the other hand he might not try with me cuz I did stand up to him.
I did notice at one point I was talking with the supervisor he got up and walked all the way around the pool to skittering around behind us almost in earshot.
So he seems the type brave enough to continue to be stupid and lack of respect.
I'm definitely sending a report into the facilities.
The Grandfather defense enraged me, TBH. As if there aren’t grandpas out there molesting little girls every single day. Ask me how I know.
I'm so sorry this happened. Ugh. I don't even ..
I cannot think of any situation outside of "is this your grandpa?" To ever state being a grandpa without it coming out inappropriately creepy now.
You aren't obliged to go to the police at all, as you process it you will become more calm about it and decide your best path.
It is absolutely not your responsibility to teach this POS a lesson, you and your time are worth more than this man and his ignorant and disgusting behaviour, unless you want to take it further that is. I think documenting and sending an email about this to management may be wise. (Keep the exchanges saved) in case he does present a future problem. Keep it factual and brief and outline what happened and that you want to make them aware of this incident if you do decide to go that way.
You really did an amazing job of standing up to him on the spot. Kudos to you! (I could never have been so composed and direct unfortunately. If he spoils your future enjoyment of the facilites they will have your email conversation and should be vigilant. I'm guessing you scared him into leaving you well alone in future.
Good luck!
Thanks! update: i wrote it out and called the facilities. They took down my details and wrote it out into a form and gave me email addresses to send my write-up.
the woman on the phone informed me they have been having issues with entitled men in there and now adopting a zero tolerance policy towards harassment. They are using my report to move forward to find the supervisor that helped me to gain information on the man so they can address it more seriously so i and other people can feel safe.
plus now that it's in writing i have a paper trail to escalate it to authorities should it need to!
Good! I'm so glad you had the courage to stand up! I am shaking with rage that he kept trying to bully his way into being allowed to touch you. No one saying anything before. Means he didn't get caught and was expecting to ride on that power for the rest of his life. Fuck that guy sideways with a shovel with spikes.
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Of course swooping in and doubting an event that you weren't present at makes you sound so much more a 'reliable source'.
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Wow you're so angry you're posting about this in other subreddits.
Sounds like you're personalizing something. I take it you got banned from a public areas for being gross.
Good.
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K.