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LChris24

Grenn is a Possible Bastard of Robert Baratheon (Spoilers Extended)

EXTENDED

Around a year ago I posted Who is Robert's 8th Known Bastard, and while I don't know if he is one of the 8 that Varys knows about, I think it is very possible he is one of the 16 that exist.

A quick refresher:

Varys knows about 8 of Robert's bastards, while Maggy the Frog confirms that he has 16 total.

The seven bastards that the reader knows about are:

  • Gendry

  • Mya Stone

  • Bella

  • Barra

  • Edric Storm

  • Twins at Casterly Rock

And the best guesses as to who the 8th that Varys knows about were:

  • Russell Merryweather

  • Bastard via his cousin on Greenstone

  • Someone at the Wall (Grenn/Satin/etc.)

While I doubt it is ever confirmed, and it probably has no relevance to the plot, it is very possible that Grenn is a (likely unconfirmed by Varys) bastard son of Robert I Baratheon


#Gendry Comparison

Gendry (a known bastard of Robert) is described as "the bull" which is a domesticated aurochs.

We even get these quotes that a very similar:

"Mind your filthy tongue," the master said. "This is the King's own Hand." The boy lowered his eyes. "A smart boy, but stubborn. That helm … the others call him bullheaded, so he threw it in their teeth." -AGOT, Eddard VI

and:

"You never liked Ser Alliser to call you Aurochs."

"He was saying I was big and stupid." Grenn scratched at his beard. "If Pyp wanted to call me Aurochs, though, he could. Or you, or Jon. An aurochs is a fierce strong beast, so that's not so bad, and I am big, and getting bigger. -ASOS, Samwell II

#Description (as compared to Robert)

Robert (described as bull/aurochs)

The Usurper will kill you, sure as sunrise, Mormont had said. Robert had slain her gallant brother Rhaegar, and one of his creatures had crossed the Dothraki sea to poison her and her unborn son. They said Robert Baratheon was strong as a bull and fearless in battle, a man who loved nothing better than war. -ACOK, Daenerys II

and:

Fifteen years past, when they had ridden forth to win a throne, the Lord of Storm's End had been clean-shaven, clear-eyed, and muscled like a maiden's fantasy. Six and a half feet tall, he towered over lesser men, and when he donned his armor and the great antlered helmet of his House, he became a veritable giant. He'd had a giant's strength too, his weapon of choice a spiked iron warhammer that Ned could scarcely lift. In those days, the smell of leather and blood had clung to him like perfume. -AGOT, Eddard I

Grenn

Jon stood up. "I'll break the other one for you if you ask nicely." Grenn was sixteen and a head taller than Jon. All four of them were bigger than he was, but they did not scare him. He'd beaten every one of them in the yard. -AGOT, Jon III

and:

Grenn had changed a great deal from the big, clumsy, red-necked boy Jon had first befriended. He had grown half a foot, his chest and shoulders had thickened, and he had not cut his hair nor trimmed his beard since the Fist of the First Men. It made him look as huge and shaggy as an aurochs, the mocking name that Ser Alliser Thorne had hung on him during training. -ASOS, Jon IX

While we don't get any info on Grenn's hair or eye color, I think his hair can be assumed to be darker due to him looking more like an aurochs when he grows his hair shaggy and has a beard. And wrt to his eye color, the main text has no info on Bella's eye color either (even though the app states they are blue).

Also they both seem to love drinking songs:

Arstan chuckled. "Robert? Robert liked songs that made him laugh, the bawdier the better. He only sang when he was drunk, and then it was like to be 'A Cask of Ale' or 'Fifty-Four Tuns' or 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair.' Robert was much—" -ASOS, Daenerys IV

and:

Yes you do," said Grenn. "How about 'The Bear and the Maiden Fair,' everybody knows that one. A bear there was, a bear, a bear! All black and brown and covered with hair!" -ASOS, Samwell I

#Grenn/Jon parallel to Robert/Rhaegar

It would be so great (at least to me) if Grenn were Robert's as that means the bastard sons of Robert/Rhaegar fought a "duel" in AGOT:

Under black wool, boiled leather, and mail, sweat trickled icily down Jon's chest as he pressed the attack. Grenn stumbled backward, defending himself clumsily. When he raised his sword, Jon went underneath it with a sweeping blow that crunched against the back of the other boy's leg and sent him staggering. Grenn's downcut was answered by an overhand that dented his helm. When he tried a sideswing, Jon swept aside his blade and slammed a mailed forearm into his chest. Grenn lost his footing and sat down hard in the snow. Jon knocked his sword from his fingers with a slash to his wrist that brought a cry of pain. -AGOT, Jon III

It would also mean that Jon/Grenn are related:

Prince Rhaegar shook his head. "My royal sire fears your father more than he does our cousin Robert. He wants you close, so Lord Tywin cannot harm him. I dare not take that crutch away from him at such an hour. -AFFC, Jaime I

and also that father's/son behave very similar:

The grounds seemed deserted this morning, with so many rangers off at the brothel in Mole's Town, digging for buried treasure and drinking themselves blind. Grenn had gone with them. Pyp and Halder and Toad had offered to buy him his first woman to celebrate his first ranging. They'd wanted Jon and Sam to come as well, but Sam was almost as frightened of whores as he was of the haunted forest, and Jon had wanted no part of it. "Do what you want," he told Toad, "I took a vow."

and:

Littlefinger shook the rain from his hair and laughed. "Now I see. Lord Arryn learned that His Grace had filled the bellies of some whores and fishwives, and for that he had to be silenced. Small wonder. Allow a man like that to live, and next he's like to blurt out that the sun rises in the east."

There was no answer Ned Stark could give to that but a frown. For the first time in years, he found himself remembering Rhaegar Targaryen. He wondered if Rhaegar had frequented brothels; somehow he thought not. -AGOT, Eddard IX


Is Grenn, Robert's bastard? Maybe. I just thought a lot of these details lined up well. I doubt we ever get actual confirmation, but if something happens like if Grenn gets killed by Borroq's boar then it could be subtly hinted at. There are numerous other characters described a "strong as boar/aurochs" in the story such as The Hound/Jorah/Gerold Hightower/Porridge/Victarion/Hosteen Frey and Greatjon Umber.

Keep in mind that Grenn (age 16 at the beginning of AGOT) was born in 281/282 AC, which was not only a time in which Robert was gallivanting back and forth between the Vale and the Stormlands, but also near the Year of the False Spring and the Tournament at Harrenhal.

ETA: u/tempeson pointed out this quote to me:

"You won't." Grenn's thick brown beard was frozen all around his mouth. It made him look like some old man. "You'll freeze, or the Others will get you. Sam, get up!" -ASOS, Samwell I

Since Baratheon's are known for black hair, it makes this theory pretty improbable. My only guess for a possible explanation would be that a)the ice made it look lighter or b)I have dark black hair and have had numerous people describe my hair as brown before. Both are pretty weak retorts.

TLDR: Its possible that Grenn is a bastard of Robert I Baratheon

Posted Sep 11, 2019, 10:22 PM UTC · edited

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