Your daily reminder that the GG.Bet Hamburg Invitational is a tournament that exists and is happening right now
I get that it's not just on the viewers re the issues of tier 2 dota, but at the same time the tournament is barely hitting 1k views right now.
It's not like it's a tournament full of unknowns either - a ton of CIS teams are looking to prove themselves after TI including FNG's new Gambit lineup, Iceberg reuniting with Winstrike, Old But Gold riding once more, and Misha's new team featuring the likes of ILTW and Immersion. We've also got some promising new EU teams including Singularity - Saberlight's chance to prove himself outside of Hippmaniacs and Ad Finem - the Greek squad reunited minus Skylark.
The casting team of Lizzard and Kyle are also delivering a chill and insightful cast.
Just thought I'd let people know. If you were one of the people in the comments calling for more support for the tier 2 scene, then be the change you want to see!
Posted Sep 16, 2019, 3:30 PM UTC
Leddit days ago: Volvo support tier 2 scene please.
Doesn't watch tier 2 tournaments. Kek.
To be fair, this sub and most other sources of advertising for this type of stuff has become garbage the past few years.
I used to constantly see threads for new tournaments, something going live, etc but the current group of mods sterilized this sub a long time ago by standardizing formats, using tons of stickied megathreads (which nobody reads), and trying to cram all the info in a couple spots. There's almost no hype on this sub anymore.
After seeing this thread I immediately opened twitch and started watching. These types of threads go a long way.
There was a post here yesterday but only got 300 upvotes so it’s already off the frontpage. Meanwhile Purge meme post has 6k upvotes
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/d4ld5w/those_who_are_missing_pro_dota_ggbet_hamburg/
I hate that this sub doesn't have regular live and post-match threads like the CSGO and LoL subreddits.
While I can't speak for the live threads since the mods usually do that, I can speak for the post match threads. (/u/dota2-post-match-bot)
Currently my plan is to just cover DPC events and TI which has worked okay so far.
I am aware of the recent push for supporting tier 2 Dota and tournaments of this calibre of course and am currently debating on whether the bot should cover tournaments such as these.
There's a few problems in the way technically (difficult to find the league id of low-key tournaments, the bot is only set up to actually work for DPC events atm, etc) but these problems can be worked on if the demand is there.
But the biggest concern I have is if the demand is there. Just by looking at the user page, it's pretty easy to see what matches are popular (EG losing with 500 upvotes) compared to what matches are less so (CN vs CN with 27). Compared to r/GlobalOffensive or r/leagueoflegends, these threads just don't seem to be as popular, (for now at least). It's funny that you've said below that there was no post-match threads for TI, when, in fact, there were! It's just that only a handful of them reached the front page.
I'm not concerned at all when it comes to the bot doing well - I get that not every match is going to be a barn-burner - but if a winners bracket TI match is not going to get much of a reception, then what chance does a T2 tournament have?
That's just my thoughts right now.
Thanks, that does actually illuminate a lot... My bad, the effort was certainly there - it just seems that the userbase of this sub are weirdos, relatively speaking. xD Maybe they just aren't used to them or...?
So odd, it's a staple for all other E-Sports.
r/dota2loungebets had that, it was extremely active and bigger tournaments have dedicated threads for each game. Until Valve killed Dota2lounge.
Now r/dota2betting is a ghost of it's predecessor.
And my point is that those are irrelevant "secondary" subreddits that no one cares about. It's not all about Valve, the userbase and mods here are at fault... There aren't even dedicated post-match threads for TI!
Whenever a match finishes in a CS:GO tourney or one of LoL's leagues, a post-match thread with detailed stats and hundreds if not thousands of comments is up within minutes on their respective subreddits. The fact that we don't have that on this sub is infuriating.
Maybe it is different for you, but I have an "upcoming matches" list right under the "Livestreams" one, on the right side of r/DotA2. That has even lower tier matches listed.
Who could have seen that coming? /s
They want support for the t2 scene.
but actually doing it? hell nah lmao
iF ThEy haBE BIggEr PrIzE pOOlS mORe pPl wIlL wAtCH
Everyone else should support the t2 scene, duh!
/s
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Lmao, as expected... talk first, act later...
That's literally the reason why the tier 2 scene should be monetarily supported, it doesn't actually generate enough viewers to be sustainable. Giving it some of each TI's prizepool is an investment; you're spending money now not to immediately reap financial gains, but so that there is a future pool of people who will try and become pro Dota players.
Additionally, having a higher prizepool adds clout to a tournament, so that alone might bring in more viewers.
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I literally live in Hamburg and didn't know about this. The advertising for this event is absolutely shit. I know about dozens of upcoming concerts until like april of next year, I know about most plays that are happening here and I know about like 4 musicals happening.
There was no advertising for the event here.
actually thats an irrelevant point that only exists for people like you to stroke their self righteous dicks
It's irrelevant because you said so?
I don't understand how that arguments keeps getting upvoted. Valve supporting the T2 and T3 scene and me (or any of us) watching are two completely different things.
I think we humans just like seeing people at their absolute best and at the very top. And you also only have a limited amount of time to do what you enjoy, which includes watching dota games.
But the T2 and T3 is obviously needed so that these players can get into the T1 scene. So what is wrong with demanding support for these teams?
TL;DR: I want the support for the T2 and T3 not to watch them but to help them get into the T1 scene AND THEN watch them.
EDIT: Also I do watch them from time to time but as i said my time is limited. It just doesnt have the same priority as a Major or TI.
it's not that hard to understand how these arguments keep getting upvoted. more viewers (you) = better value for sponsors = more tournaments for tier2 scene = more money for tier2 teams = supports tier2 players.
Your equation is backwards at the beginning. Normally a business would find investors or spend their own money to create a good product, then they'd get more viewers, then they'd be able to make their money back or get more investors. Esports TOs want to spend as little money as they can, then try to beg Valve for money or guilt trip viewers into watching their tournaments because they can't make any money. It'd be like a local restaurant telling people that they should eat their shitty food because they need the money to eventually serve good food.
I think as far as money from Valve goes, they set their policy at the beginning of the season and thats what, I don't think any amount of begging changes their mind
And i haven't seen any serious cases of Organizers guilt tripping the community, nor should we get guilt tripped
Let them figure out how to make it more fun to watch, WePlay usually does a stellar job of making their tournaments vibrant and fun
Well he is talking about valve helping the T2 (and T3) scene not tournament organizers. The same thing many redditors asked from valve.
To give an example of what I mean: If dota would be a country, Valve would be its administrator (government). For a government there is no real (direct) value for education. They are not making any money out of it. But a good education means a good working force later. And a good working force leads to more productivity in companies. I see tournament organizers as companies in said scenario, as they have a different position as valve.
Is my point clearer now? Am I in the wrong for seeing valve as a different entity as tournament organizers? Would be great if someone can explain why they should be treated equally as it seems like I'm wrong (-> looking at my downvotes).
Because what you have said is exactly what Blizzard has done with Heroes of the Storm, which is dead. They invested heavily into the scene, the scene did not grow, and Blizzard lost money.
Businesses exists to make money, they are not a charity.
Valve and TOs have 10 YEARS of viewer data that backs up their investments. Dota tournaments are valued by the number of viewers they bring in, not how cool T1 dota could be.
Not to be rude but, tournament organizers are entrepreneurs, they need to find out creative and previously unthought of ways to generate revenue and interest
Expecting handouts from a company that contributed 1.6 mil dollars in a 34 million dollar international, isnt gonna pop
We need entrepreneurs to be entrepreneurs
Wouldn't by that logic all kind of PR (e.g. communty work) be 'handouts'? You are not getting any direct value. How come companies still do it?
And in my honest opinion: I don't think valve would make less money (short term) for the battlepass with all its value if they got rid of the 25% TI contribution. Long term its great marketing and keeps the esports scene (at the top atleast) alive. And a healthy esports scene keeps players of all kinds of brackets interested in the game.
Generally i think you take 'We need entrepreneurs to be entrepreneurs' too strictly. There is value in doing something for the community or customers or whatever even if you are taking a loss for it.
Edit: Also advertising (with sponsors) TI would be in Valves interest, because they would get lots of money out of it right? Why aren't they being entrepeneurs in this case?
Valve is taking a very different approach from the other game studios, as an example, you can't organize a commercial League of legends tournament, neither PUBG nor Overwatch,
But Valve allows anyone to form a team (you need to pay 20-30 million for that in other games like** Call of duty) but Valve allows anyone to form teams and organize tournaments, heck they dont even cannibalize the market by hogging sponsors, which allows entrepreneur organizations like ESL One and WePlay to go to the market and build their thing
I think they argument is, that valve is already doing a community half way service by allowing people to build businesses and brands and tournament organizations
But you gotta meet them half way there, they do their half by allowing anyone to build a business on top of dota or cs without charging tens of millions of dollars like their competitors
And you (entrepreneur) do your half by figuring out how the money and the marketing works
Orgs benefit from a wider playerpool not valve. Why is no one blaming EG, Liquid, VP aso for not having a second team? It works for china and they even make money with the buy outs for new bloods.
Oh you are completely right. Orgs benefit the most of a good T2 and T3 scene. It is indeed strange that it works in china and not for the rest of the world. Any guess why that is?
But I still think there is some value for valve in a good esports infrastructure. How much I can not say.
Well it is hard to pinpoint anything specific. There is the mentality thing. While most western t2/3 player things, that he can be t1 with the right teammates, I imagine, that chinese talents work harder to get out of the second team. On top of that it is normal to buy players from a team while in the west it is rare and not well received. Just look how Alliance handled OG´s approach on Micke f.e. It feels more like a bussines to me. The roolbook from Valve doesn´t encourage to have a second team as well (no substitute in a running tournament, Orgs only one TI team aso).
I think Valve and Orgs fcked up in that regard equally. For me Valve don´t need to invest more money, rather supporting Orgs to invest more with better rules. Would that solve everything? I don´t know, but it works for every regular sport, why not for eSports?
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