r/ACMilan•
MVB3

Some Thoughts in the Aftermath of the Derby

Tier 4

I was unsure if I wanted to make a post like this at all with the amount of vitriol that is consuming this subreddit these days. It's hard to find the desire to make posts in search of constructive discussion when so many week after week fill the subreddit with insults or ridicule towards anyone not sharing their opinions, not to mention towards the coach and the team over every tiny mistake or decision they don't agree with. Being critical is good and all, but it's harder and harder to find attempts at discussion in the critique and not just spouting of shit talking and mockery. Still, I'll give it a go, since I do believe there's positives to take from the bitter defeat yesterday.

Obviously, there were plenty of things that went wrong yesterday, and most of them have mentioned 100 times over, so I'll skip quite a lot of that. It doesn't mean I'm glossing over them, but rather I'll leave that to what's already been said elsewhere. I'll just mention in regards to one of the shouts right now that I disagree wholeheartedly with the shouts of firing the coach 4 games in. There were quite a lot of talk in here about a year ago (and over a period after that) that had quite a few supporting voices behind them that the cycle of hiring and firing coaches was a big problem in recent years at Milan, and the resetting of the project got us nowhere. I'm not going to say I was a huge backer of this notion, even if I do agree up to a point with it, but I think it's worth keeping in mind for those that agreed with that a year ago to consider if they still believe that now, and if they also are thinking it might be a good idea to fire the coach 4 games into the season.

Regardless, regarding the game last night, there was one thing I feel positive about more than anything else. This was the first game so far where I actually started to see the traces of the tactics Giampaolo wants to see in the team. It wasn't so much in the team having good passages of offensive play, but rather where the differences were shown when some individual players played the way I think Giampaolo wants them to play. The main focus here to me are two concepts that have been mentioned in other threads by both myself and others, and those are movement off the ball into space and passing the ball towards those movements.

I think the easiest example that most people agree with is the inclusion of Leao. We probably saw this last night more than the previous 3 games combined, where Leao would make offensive movements off the ball, and the ball being sent to him in that movement. For example he would make a run behind or on the outside of the fullback, and the pass would go to him creating a one-against-one situation where the defense had limited safety cover if Leao would win that battle. I would've liked to see even more attempts to find Leao this way, and even more positive movements of him, but this was a good start both from him and those that looked to make the passes to him. I'll also say that the few minutes Rebic got, he also showed a couple of good moments like this, which adds to the positive impression he already made against Verona.

The second example is on the surface negative, but I choose to see it as a positive for the future. When Paqueta came on we saw a team that unraveled in possession outside of a few moments created by Theo's great runs. The reason for this in my opinion was that the way we played at that point was sending the ball to Suso or Paqueta, who then held onto to the ball while the rest were standing around watching them rather than making off the ball movements. The reason why I look at this as a positive is that it really emphasized that the team was falling back to the old sins of hoping the two playmakers that were now on the pitch would come up with something magical. Where in previous games it felt more like there were so many problems it was hard to pick out what to focus on improving beyond "everything", this in my opinion gave some clear indications of possible changes that could make a big impact fairly quickly.

  1. Right now it seems to me that to improve the flow of our attacking play we need to only use one playmaker at the time, and facilitate the best possible conditions for that playmaker to shine. Suso and Paqueta are really the two candidates for this role more than anything, so only one of them should be on the pitch at the time. Personally I would prefer Paqueta because I believe he's more suited to thrive in a system where we try to provide him with options for quicker play, but that's beside the point.
  2. Team selection around the playmaker should more than anything focus on players able and willing to put in the effort of movements off the ball. Offensive runs, breaking free from markers, creating space for teammates etc. I'm sure there's quite a few players that can learn to play this way, but right now I'd focus on the ones showing this on the pitch, just to get us going. Players like Leao, Rebic, Theo and Hakan (I'll get back to the latter, because I know most people in here will think "no fucking way" as soon as they read his name) are the ones I believe should be heavily considered for this, while someone like Jack probably will come into the picture at some point when he's hopefully fit.

In regards to Hakan, I do not see him as a playmaker the way Giampaolo utilize him, and I believe the coach is correct in that. Hakan is not playing like he did last season, he's changed quite a lot. Last season he was used as a playmaker together with Suso, holding onto the ball for ages, trying to score from very long range very often and roaming long distances sideways (getting close to the right wing even). The Hakan we see today is putting in a lot of effort moving into space off the ball, passing the ball to a much higher degree than transporting it himself and focuses his movements more vertically than horizontally. His shots are also in large part at a much closer range (<20 meters), which have created dangerous situations. His contribution is not flashy, but it's something we need as much as possible of right now for the team machine to run smoothly. He's not an amazing player, but right now I believe that he contributes some crucial things that others are not (but might do better than him in time). Ideally I see him as a useful bench player in the future, but right now I believe he needs to be a starter. I know that's contrary to what most people in here think, and I don't necessarily think I'll change anyone's mind, but I guess I'll live up to the Hakan supporter reputation that I probably deservedly have built up over time.

There's a lot more that can be talked about both regarding the above focus points and other points, but I'll wrap up before this ends up a book-length post. I'll end it with what I've heard Giampaolo said a few times so far this season, "the players aren't doing what I tell them to". Well, I think that yesterday he started to see some players starting to do parts of what he tells them to do (which he might not have seen in the previous games), and some that are continuing to not do so. I also believe that regardless if Giampaolo agrees with what I write here or not, I believe that his trained eyes sees a lot more than me. I believe that we will start to see him making some significant changes in the next few games aimed to improving very specific parts of our many problems.

But I could be wrong of course.

Posted Sep 22, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

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serdawnSeedorf•

Both Rebic and Leao need to start ahead of Suso - they're both quicker, more dynamic and think quicker on the ball than Suso. And God willing without Suso all our players would wake up out of the lazy pass it to Suso mantra they've internalized the past few seasons. Stick Bennacer at regista, Theo at LB and all of a sudden we have a team that can trouble defences and more importantly, be quicker in the transition from defense to offense.

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halftimehijackRonaldinho •

I was coming here to say this myself. 100% agree

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ElverGun•

Unfortunately, there is almost a 100% chance that we will not see this happen while Giampaolo is calling the shots. Hakan and Suso are here to stay. If we are lucky, we might see Bennacer instead of Biglia and perhaps Hernandez instead of RR.

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serdawnSeedorf•

Haven't given up on him yet since the season is young and all that but if Biglia starts another game then he's probably as clueless as everyone is making him out to be

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yardiedeyaHonda•

This a pretty fair reflection on what I also feel is going on in our team. Yes, we didn't win and didn't have many attempts on goal, but there were positives in seeing a bit of what the coach wants coming out.

I agree with this post in it's entirety, and as such I only want to address two things. Firstly, I am still of the belief that a constant cycle of coaches is only going to hurt us. I believe this is true in the case of most any team that wants to see results, but because of our lack of "world class" players this issue is amplified. Because our team is fairly average when compared to the goals we aspire to, every time a coach is put in he'll need to bring in more players that better suit his ideas. I'm of the opinion that if we had better players overall there would be less of this turnover and time spent looking for replacements and more emphasis on the coach trying to form the players to his vision. That being said I feel we do have quite a few good players that could eventually turn the situation we are seeing around. Pretty much the players you stated as positives, with the addition of Bennacer.

My second point is on Bennacer. Though I may understand philosophically what the coach wants with Biglia on the pitch, from the little that we have seen of Bennacer I feel he may help more in the aspect of off the ball movement and quick passing (but again this is from the one fraction of a match that I saw him in). Also, I noted on a few instances Biglia had this thing of passing the ball to a player who was already being closed in on by an opponent behind them.

Agreed that Paqueta and Suso shouldn't really be on the pitch at the same time. It's one of them and Çalhanoğlu. I prefer Çalhanoğlu and Paqueta because they seem to link up much better than in terms of quick play. I've said it in the past, but Çalhanoğlu plays better depending on who he gets to play off of, and I feel Paqueta brings more out of him.

As a side note, do you think it would be possible to play Rebic and Leão on the pitch in yesterday's formation with Paqueta behind them? I say Paqueta specifically instead of Suso because Suso tends to put in crosses into the box and I feel those two aren't as good as Piatek in the air.

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MVB3OP•

As a side note, do you think it would be possible to play Rebic and Leão on the pitch in yesterday's formation with Paqueta behind them? I say Paqueta specifically instead of Suso because Suso tends to put in crosses into the box and I feel those two aren't as good as Piatek in the air.

It's certainly something I've thought about since yesterday. It's one of those difficult decisions because Piatek is clearly someone we want to get going and be integrated in the team. It's a difficult choice, but maybe benching him for at least one game to see Leao and Rebic up front might be worth trying. We would lose some goalscoring prowess probably, which is not great, but if we start producing a lot more chances then it could produce more goals regardless. I'm not sure what the right choice is, because I think it's in our best interest to integrate Piatek into the starting lineup at some point regardless. I haven't been able to come to a clear opinion one way or the other.

The other thought I have is a risky one, which is to bench Kessie and play Paqueta as mezzala with Hakan in Kessie's role. Then we can fit Piatek, Leao and Rebic in the three offensive positions and still use Paqueta as the playmaker (coming from a deeper position). Obviously this is risky because losing Kessie's physique in the midfield is a heavy loss, and he is better than Hakan defensively even if Hakan does put a good amount of work in defensively. If people say it's not going to work, that it's too offensive, then I'm not necessarily disagreeing with that, but it is a thought I'm wondering if maybe it's worth trying. I'm obviously open to benching Hakan too and play Kessie instead with the same setup, but that puts more pressure on Leao and Rebic to provide those movements for Paqueta to find, and Kessie has to get more forward than he did last night. We obviously know he's good at making offensive runs, but inconsistent when the pass does reach him.

Obviously I too wish to see Bennacer in the starting lineup as I believe his vertical passing is needed in this team. I thought Biglia was decent the first 20-30 minutes last night, and I'd probably say he was okay for the first half in total, but the second half he just couldn't keep up. He was pretty bad that half, there's no hiding that. I expect we will see Bennacer starting against Torino or Fiorentina.

5
yardiedeyaHonda•

The other thought I have is a risky one, which is to bench Kessie and play Paqueta as mezzala with Hakan in Kessie's role. Then we can fit Piatek, Leao and Rebic in the three offensive positions and still use Paqueta as the playmaker (coming from a deeper position).[...] I'm obviously open to benching Hakan too and play Kessie instead with the same setup, but that puts more pressure on Leao and Rebic to provide those movements for Paqueta to find, and Kessie has to get more forward than he did last night. We obviously know he's good at making offensive runs, but inconsistent when the pass does reach him.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, but as you said I do have doubts about how heavily offensive it is. But who knows it might actually end up fitting us more. To be fair our problem hasn't been much in the conceeding department, so we might be able to use that setup for playing against the teams that sit back and defend.

Biglia did start off totally fine, but as you said he couldn't keep up after a while.

I did suggest the benching of Piatek, but I'm also hesitant on it. He just isn't being given the ball in any semi useful situations. He really only needs a half sight at goal to put something away, so that's why I don't necessarily want him benched. But at least to see how Leão and Rebic play together and what we could do with the increased chance creation.

2
ffrankies•

The way I see it, we have the same problems as last year. Playmakers thrive when players around them move. Our lazy-ass players mostly just stand there. This makes it easy for the other team to man-mark them, and the playmaker is left with no options but to pass back.

Leao, Rebic, Theo and to a lesser extent Paqueta and Kessie are the only players who do that. On top of that, despite playing higher up the pitch, Piatek is somehow still isolated in between multiple defenders at any given time.

Coach needs to kick some asses until the whole team is constantly moving, and drill some attacking combos into them. For that last bit to work, we first need to establish a first 11, and it's got to actually have our best players in it. The longer we play deadweight players and tinker with formations, the longer it'll take for the team to start playing coherently.

3
Boneraventura•

hakan is the new montolivo for this reddit. montolivo was deadwood, hakan is deadwood. hakan needs to play like fucking seedorf not biglia 2.0. anymore passive players on the team is driving every offensive movement into the ground

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propolR•

Well said. Just that, well said.

Forza Milan.

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kakarebornKaká•

My problem with GP is he seems way too rigid and too stubborn to admit he may be wrong and change things. He keeps playing certain players trying in a way to prove his way works and he was/is right and everyone else is wrong.

At Empoli/Samp there was no pressure, people would not analyze and criticize every decision he made, at Milan he doesn’t have that luxury.

Biglia had a horrible game at Verona yet he started the derby too, why? Bennacer was one of our best performers against Brescia, surely that warrants another start.

Suso is clearly not tactically disciplined yet he starts every week, again why, just so GP could say see I was right I can transform him into a dynamic AM?

I believe a coach should be adaptable, should play to his players strengths, GP seems to want the players to play his system no matter if they are suited for it or not, and you can’t fit round pigs in square holes.

I would prefer someone like Allegri/Mou that are flexible tactically and usually adapt to their teams not the other way around

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geo0rgi•

Finally a normal, mature analysis in this thread. I agree with all your points. We cannot build an entire new system from scratch in like 2 games.

What I am worried about is if Giampaolo keeps Biglia and RR in the starting 11. Hope I am wrong, but Biglia playing full game in the derby is a bit concerning to me.

I think with Bennacer, Theo and Paqueta on the pitch we are going to be far, far more dangerous. At the moment our left flang is just meh and that makes the life of opponents way too easy. They just cover Suso and our game is gone. No one else, who can create something dangerous.

With Paqueta and Theo on the left + Bennacer in the middle we would have way more weapons going forward.

I am actually very excited about the Torino game, we are going to have a lot of questions answered just by the starting eleven.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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