Source
r/shrooms•
unemployedemt

CMV: Lemon Tek is just a sour tea

Relevant meme

The "Lemon Tek" is one of the more infamous myco myths out there. The basic idea behind it is this; soaking the mushrooms in an acidic liquid will dephosphorylate the psilocybin and leave you with an extract of psilocin that will lead to a quicker come up and shorter duration because you are skipping the step of the dephosphorylation in the stomach. Or "soak it in lemon juice and you'll trip balls quick bruh."

What actually dephosphorylates the psilocybin is an enzyme called Alkaline Phosphotase. Psilocin is what can pass the blood-brain barrier, not psilocybin. If acidic conditions were required for the dephosphorylation to occur, then other routes of administration like intravenous and rectal would not be viable, yet they are.

Like most myths, I think it has a basis in truth. There is an extraction process created by Casale and published in 1985 that describes mixing mushroom material with acetic acid and heating at 70°C. Which has over the years been bastardized into the lemon tek. Basically people have just been drinking a sour tea if they don't heat it as well.

And even if they do; the effects are no different than if you consume any other liquid extract like a simple tea. Quicker come up, more intense and shorter effects, and less GI distress. There is no point in choking down a nasty, sour concoction.

Or I could just be full of shit because "it totally works for me bruh." Facts don't make experiences any less valid. Suggestion and expectations are powerful.

One point in the Lemon Tekker's favor is that there is some evidence that psilocin is more soluble in an acidic solution. This could explain enhanced effects past placebo due to more psilocin being available more quickly as more of it will be extracted into the liquid. Though then there is the claim that most psilocin is destroyed in the drying process. Which I am not going to get into today. I think is it generally recognized that psilocin is less stable than psilocybin but whether it survives, I don't know. I have seen some studies with only psilocybin found in dried fruits and some with only psilocin found. I am unsure of the extraction methods used though. The paper with only psilocin could have used Casale's technique which converts all of the psilocybin.

Let me know what you guys think. Mush love and all that. Thanks for reading this.

Posted Sep 30, 2019, 6:19 PM UTC · edited

8438
QueasyVictory•

" Suggestion and expectations are powerful. "

Agreed 100%. Having said that, there will be 10 lemon teks posts today, 10 tomorrow, etc.

21
diamondjoe666•

I will say the lemon flavor makes it way easier and I can rinse it with water or make a lemonade or something before I drink it to make it go down

3
whatsyourfavsong•

Science!

This is great because taking shots of lemon juice is not my idea of a good time.

11
timmah612•

I. Fucking. Love lemons. But yeah, that's a bit much.

8
wrinkledshroom •

You can just dilute it with water after soaking in lemon lol

4
plants___in___pants•

Lol yeah I make mine into a mini lemonade with water and sugar and it ain’t bad at all

1
wrinkledshroom •

Yeah those who drink it concentrated are just asking for stomach pain.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

4
TheDextrometh-Orphan•

I mix sugar in. I also powder the shrooms. It helps get it down quick. Ive also been sceptical if it actually metabolizes it. Im still gonna do it tho. Shroomy lemonade is good imo.

2
neonbooms•

You sir....are full of shit.

9
XxpogxzogxX•

Oh no did your anecdote fall to pieces?

11
willconrey•

lol

5
mr_munshun•

I like to soak the ground shrooms in half a lemon squeezed over it, then pour hot water over that and stir and steep, then strain that whole mixture into a cup with a LOT of honey and a sleepy time tea bag, stir it up, steep, and chug it down. Still awfully lemony (honey helps to mute it), but it works and helps with no nausea.

8
OptagetBrugernavn•

I know this is old, but do you strain out the powdered shrooms? Wouldn't that make for a less potent mix?

6
sandefurian•

You don't need to consume them. The good stuff had already leached into the surrounding liquid

1
vitamin-cheese•

It does work though, never tried tea so can’t compare but I’ve never heard them be compared. Taste ? Who cares just down it quick one gulp done

6
Philo_Cybe•

Some people like to enjoy their experience. It's not about rushing to the highest high you can get.

I typically enjoy my smaller doses in a morning time green tea, or coffee. Mushrooms are for more than recreation.

7
vitamin-cheese•

I personally don’t like lemon tek, or getting super messed up, I’m just sayin if your gonna do it just do it , I like smaller doses too but as far as taste goes I don’t need to enjoy that , whatever I’m going to take I send it down and that’s it. I’m the same way with food, I just ate a cup of dry ass plain quinoa , was it good? Not really but it’s good for me and has the protein and carbs I’m looking for so I ate it real quick . People are the same way with a lot of things, apple cider vinegar for example “ I want to drink It because I heard it’s good for me but I just can’t becuase it’s so gross” It’s literally one shot and it’s over

5
SendCheeze•

Well I don't mind a quick shot of lemon

5
Ashtorak•

I thought it breaks down the chitin (?) of the mushrooms speeding up the digestion. Like a pre-digestion?

4
FatherUniversereddit•

This is exactly it! Nothing to do with converting anything

2
schmwke•

Honestly I'll probably keep doing lemon Trek just for the flavour, but I always love to see real science in this criminally understudied field. Keep it up!

4
ExponentialBitch •

https://psychedelicreview.com/compound/psilocybin/

There are two processes which lead to the dephosphorylation of psilocybin: Stomach acids, OR enzymes such as alkaline phosphatase and other non-specific esterases dephosphorylate psilocybin in the intestines, kidneys, and the blood, OR both.

Neither reach a temperature above 98.7, naturally.

Stomach acid has a PH of 1. Lemon Juice has a PH of 2. Either will induce the dephosphorylation of psilocybin.

Because alkaline phosphatase is also found in the blood, dephosphorylation still occurs and administering intravenously or rectally is viable.

Lemon Tek works and there's science out there to prove it, "bruh."

EDIT: For argument's sake, the lemon juice should be at least 98.7 degrees Fahrenheit.

4
unemployedemtOP•

You can keep posting that link but when I search the cited literature, I cannot find anything that shows dephosphorylation in acid under 70°C. Maybe I'm just missing it completely.

2
ExponentialBitch •

Dephosphorylation occurs within your body by stomach acids that are at an average temperature of 98.7. Is this fact disputed? No.

Why would you think, therefore, that lemon juice would need to be at a higher temperature than that of the average human body? Logically, lemon juice is slightly less acidic and would take a bit more time to convert, but matching the temperature of the human body would be all that is needed if temperature is indeed a factor.

You are your own proof, dude. Think about it for a minute.

1
unemployedemtOP•

Dephosphorylation occurs within your body by stomach acids that are at an average temperature of 98.7. Is this fact disputed? >No.

Yes. I am disputing that statement. Please show me where in the supporting literature that acidic conditions under 70°C will dephosphorylate psilocybin.

I used to be in your camp until my unsubstantiated belief was challenged by someone more knowledgeable than myself. I looked long and hard to find the evidence that proves the lemon tek meme. It wasn't there. Surprisingly, it was mentioned a few times in a couple papers but they always cited sources that didn't back up that claim at all. This resulted in the post challenging the lemon tek.

If you can find something that supports the lemon tek meme science, I'll check it out and probably revert back to my original position.

1
ExponentialBitch •

I cited a source recently published that states that stomach acids do the job. Stomach acids are generally 98.7 degrees.

Can you cite me something that says with a reasonable degree of scientific certainty that stomach acids do not dephosphorylate psilocybin?

If stomach acids do not dephosphorylate psilocybin, then you are correct and I've learned something new today. Everything that I've read thus far over the years, however, states that stomach acids, in fact, do perform in this way -- and neither of us need literature to tell us that the temperature is 98.7 degrees Fahrenheit.

2
shreemalien•

I'm not sure how valid my comment is here as I've genuinely only consumed mushrooms via Lemon tek and mostly choking them down gagging 8x before I swallow them.

To be straight to the point though, lemon tek is bullshit for potency IME. I've never notice any difference from 2g lemon teked vs 2g raw in neither come up time nor intensity. I metabolise ridiculously fast so idk if that means anything (10-15 mins and I'm in the stratosphere).

I'm yet to try tea and to straight cook them into something like a sweet pastry or even a savoury pizza. I'd imagine they're all just the same though to be honest in intensity, other than I'd think eating it on a pizza might take a little longer to kick in.

I guess what I'm getting at although not, is that most of the effects when it comes to psychs are placebo and happen if you want to believe they happen - I'm as of yet to believe that lemon tek is "2 times stronger and i saw god bruh" until it happens; which it hasn't lmao

3
shreemalien•

I've just googled CMV meaning because I'm mushtarded and I understand what you're getting at more now ffs xd

Although I haven't tried tea as stated; I'd imagine you're absolutely right. All it is is a tastier way to consume raw mushroom material but less sour lol. I believe the effects are probably all the same as I said though, bc lemon tek does nothing different to me than choking them down does other than tastes better

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
unemployedemtOP•

If you have pure psilocybin, yes.

2
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
johnnymushroomseed•

Been tripping for nearly 15 years. Lemon TEK definitely changed my experience(much quicker come-up, little-to-no stomach upset/anxiety), but I never tried to mess with any teas or extracts(except once, using everclear, which worked shockingly well!). I recently read this somewhere:

"Psilocybin and psilocin are water soluble. The lemon juice acid typically breaks off a phosphate atom and converts psilocybin into psilocin (as the acids in your stomach do the same) making the psychoactive compound more available to the bloodstream. I soak my crushed shrooms for a minimum of 15 minutes, usually more like 30, then add my boiling water to steep for at least another 30 minutes. I use a very small coffee press to strain into a glass and then chug (I don’t eat the mushroom remnants). This can be done in any quantity as long as the container can hold it and also, steps can be repeated in order to get out any remaining actives. I have noticed no potency differences. (Note: faster onset and very intense)"

No idea about the "science", but I tried that exactly and it is now my preferred method.

1
unemployedemtOP•

Acidic solutions don't really do anything that a tea won't do. The paragraph you copied is exactly the bro science I'm talking about.

I mentioned your reply already in this section of the post:

Or I could just be full of shit because "it totally works for me bruh." Facts don't make experiences any less valid. Suggestion and expectations are powerful.

4
XxpogxzogxX•

Even when presented with facts people will still cling on to their false worldview because everything they thought they knew then falls apart.

3
pescadito_malito•

Boof it

1
unemployedemtOP•

Feel free

1
treemoustache•

I read that twice and I'm still not sure what you're saying. Are you're saying that hot water alone would have the same effect as hot water and lemon?

And are you saying that hot water tastes better than hot water plus lemon? I think both taste awful but I prefer the lemon.

0
whatsyourfavsong•

They're saying lemon juice doesn't do shit. Or if it does it's such a small effect as to be meaningless.

4
Philo_Cybe•

In my experience, they're comparable. Heat alone will break down the psilocybin, but in my experience room temperature lemon juice has also had an effect, though diminished.

1