Source
r/DescentintoAvernus•
Benarus

Changing Shield of the Hidden Lord into a weapon

I really like some of the ideas floating around about not revealing who is really inside the Shield of the Hidden Lord. Maybe it tries to convince them it is an angel trapped inside and is willing to travel with them to Avernus to help. The problem is, that no one in the party is really going to be that into using shields. The party is going to consist of a Greatsword wielding Eldritch Knight, a lore bard, a longbow ranger, and a Circle of the Moon druid.

The druid could use a shield, but will probably spend most of the early game in beast form and probably won't get a ton of use out of the shield. Plus, the druid will get the Bracer's of Defense fairly early on in Elturel, so I don't want to load a bunch of items up on one character early on. I could tell the EK during character creation to go more defensive and use a shield. However, I think a more satisfying approach would just be change it into a +1 Greatsword (maybe even bump it up to +2 later on if it starts to corrupt the EK, or once they get to Avernus or something) and keep the other powers in it the same.

Does this seem reasonable to all the fine folks here? Just want to be sure I'm not missing something obviously wrong with this approach.

Posted Oct 3, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

315
Yarron_Dragoste•

a +1 Greatdword that casts fireballs isn't so much more powerful than a shield that does the same. Just make sure the other players don't feel overshadowed. Might I recommend you guide the Ranger to pray at the altar in the church in Elturel because unless he gets that +2 (any shaped weapon) he's not going to find any magic items for him in the campaign as written.

4
BenarusOP•

Cool, that's what I felt as well. I will definitely add or change things so that he gets either a magic weapon or bracers or archery or something. The +2 weapon right at the start seems a little strong, and will probably mean that whoever gets it never gets an upgrade again. Was thinking of changing it to a +1 and throw in a +2 later on.

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Yarron_Dragoste•

I agree. It's odd because the Campaign throws these strong items in early but later at like level 11 you find a wand of secrets as your magic item reward?? Like what is the pacing here.

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pimpwilly•

They want you to deal with devils for loot. Most of Avernus is not going to be full of undiscovered treasure waiting for adventurers.

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Yarron_Dragoste•

Except Avernus is totally full of undiscovered treasures. It's an endless battlefield between devils and demons. Hell one of the magic items you find in the written module is located in the nest of a bunch of wasps. Maybe they do want you to deal with devils and that's entirely viable but it never gives any indication that that is the intent and though an experienced DM can certainly weave it in that doesn't excuse the laziness of the adventure as written.

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bacon1292•

Another thing, many of the enemies in Avernus are immune to damage from non-magical weapons, so keep that in mind when deciding what loot drops.

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venkelos1•

The little lore gnome in me doesn't care for it; the Shield of the Hidden Lord has been that for a fairly long time, since several older editions of the game. Of course, it is also the vessel of a mighty devil, who has been a deity, before (various editions/lores like to shift on this, but he was a demiGOD in 3e). That being, I suppose it could change the shape of its vessel, especially if the wielder was some Warlock, or something (though not the plan you've got). I think one of the appeals of the shield is that it can feel okay to give it up. So many players in this game are grabby for magic items, and especially weapons, as they bypass DR so thoroughly, in 5e, but this is an item they shouldn't want, and an opportunity should present itself where they can get rid of it/deal with Gargauth, or he just gets lose. As a shield, he's useful, but when the eventual betrayal/loss happens, and he does that, so it will, losing the item is painful, but only sort of. Losing the weapon makes that player less effective against devils, again, and while that "devil's bargain" may be cool, some people just won't care what happens to their "character", if they win the "game", so it might not be as neat (they'll just keep it, and damn themselves); I'm a specific kind of player, I guess. ;)

If you do go Sword, just make sure the party won't get too pissed when they have to lose it, or one PC makes some terrible choices to NOT lose it, and his ability to deal optimal damage every round. I can't speak for the types of things/tropes/goals your party appreciates, so maybe it will be no problem, but one might imagine it's a shield for a reason. Regardless, best of luck, and please enjoy the campaign!!!

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BenarusOP•

Making sure that he has access to an alternative magic weapon early on so that he doesn't feel compelled to keep the sword is a really good idea, I'll be sure to do that.

I actually feel the opposite in terms of usefulness, re: weapon vs shield. Magic swords (even if just a +1) seem to be a dime a dozen. A +2 shield that can shoot fireballs seems incredibly rare and insanely valuable. A +2 shield by itself is quite strong given that extra AC is so hard to come by, but one that also serves as a weapon seems nearly impossible to let go of.

Thankfully my players are pretty good at not treating the world like a video game, they really do care about what happens to their character. Regardless, I think that any sentient weapon like this should have some mechanical cost associated with it. Potential exhaustion, demanding some course of action and deattuning itself if it doesn't get what it wants, etc.

2
venkelos1•

I don't think you are wrong, per say, but if it was a +X weapon that also cast fireball, more people I've seen play would want that; a shield is nice, but it doesn't necessarily make the nasty enemy beatable, while fireball is friendly fire, which isn't ever friendly, so you need to be careful when it's useful. Most monsters aren't optimized, like the players will be, due to their drive to "win the game", in my experience, so that extra AC, while nice, isn't always necessary, and if the enemy realize one PC is a plate-wearing, plate-wielding tank, they'll just aim for someone else. The weapon, though, can hurt those enemies (devils, weres, golems, etc.) where some Fighters just end up trying to hold foes they otherwise can't hurt back. Also, in my games, no magic weapons are a dime a dozen, so my players would gladly seize on any opportunity to keep it; the shield would be that, too, if they were proficient, but they can already get high AC without it, ignoring most attacks. This certainly may simply be a difference in our varied experiences, so no biggie. ;)

Of course, if they get the Blade of the Hidden Lord, possession could definitely be a concern; lesser intellects in such tools take PCs, and Gargauth is a powerful entity, so if the carrier isn't a Charisma-based PC, they, and their party, could be in for some trouble.

2
Rotrude•

This may be an unpopular opinion, but I think the Shield of the Hidden Lord is way too strong to get at such a low level. I'm planning to have it unlock its powers over the course of the adventure (if the players keep it around) to simulate Gargauth getting some strength back from being in Hell.

2
BenarusOP•

100% agree and am planning to do something similar. It is going to be tricky balancing the items usefulness vs its corrupting influence. I think I will start it as +1 with one charge and the truesight (I am hoping that having the item alert its owner to invisible creatures is going to be a super dramatic moment). Then it slowly ramps up, maybe a bump when they reach Avernus and another if the character starts becoming corrupted.

I read an idea on this sub a few days back that no one knows what the shield is and don't just say "Hey there is a pit lord in there." I plan for the shield to claim to be a celestial that has been trapped and the cult trying to corrupt it / use it as a conduit to corrupt (much like the Companion). I am hoping I can get them to trust it and then slowly start to suspect something is weird with it as things progress.

1