Spider 20 Auto - No Counter Attack or HP Burn Guide

Hi all,

So I just recently wrapped up my missions to get Arbiter and had to do Spider 20 without a counter attack buffer since, like many of us, RNGesus hasn’t seen fit to bless me with a Martyr, Valkyrie or Skullcrusher yet. I figured I would share my spider strategy here. I know I’m not the first to do it this way, but I haven’t seen any kind of guide put together for this strategy, so I figured I’d share what I’ve learned in hopes that it proves helpful to others in a similar situation. It is somewhat similar to/inspired by the approach that u/Dierin did a write-up on (https://www.reddit.com/r/RaidShadowLegends/comments/ch0aq8/spider_20_auto_a_guide/ ), but with a major difference in how the spiderlings are approached that makes it quite a bit more forgiving in terms of the gear required, and in the overall team composition.

Update 10/9/19 - Added Warchief to tanks section and Stitched Beast, Elfguard and Armiger as budget Turn Meter options.

Update 10/15/19 - u/StewGamingTV did a great video breaking down the main points of the strategy. Check it out here - https://youtu.be/CWYxnW4S7Cg. Also made a few additions for budget tank options and moved a few heroes to the near misses sections after learning that their AI makes them unsuitable for Spider 20 on auto.

Update 10/25/19 - u/StewGamingTV continuing to be a champion of the IAP-Lite crowd has done another video testing this strategy with easily accessible heroes. This time seeing how Armiger compares to CH/RG, and the results are surprisingly good (imo). Check it out here - https://youtu.be/a9cubennu6U. I think with Armiger being as good as he is, Spider 20 is perfectly doable for those without CH if they're willing to develop him.

The Team in Action –

(Sorry for the terrible 360p quality and no sound, I will need to figure out why my recording program is doing this for future videos)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hns_epHPKFs

The Setup-

Sinesha - (https://i.imgur.com/QFK3AeH.png )

Coldheart – (https://i.imgur.com/eHypBsZ.png)

Alure – (https://i.imgur.com/10ZSacB.png)

Rae – (https://i.imgur.com/RG83ghD.png) *Old screenshot, her banner was +16 in the actual runs so she had over 200 accuracy. I’ve changed her gear since and didn’t feel like spending a million silver to switch it back for a screenshot.

Nethril – (https://i.imgur.com/oCvbIR3.png)

(Yes, I realize many reading this will not have Rae and/or Nethril. There are alternatives discussed below)

How it Works-

As with any of these kinds of strategies, two things have to be addressed in order to succeed. First is keeping the spiderlings from wiping out your whole team. The second is keeping the boss itself from consuming all of the spiderlings and healing (and likely wiping out half or more of your team in the process). Where this strategy differs from the one Dierin suggested is mainly in the way the spiderlings are addressed.

Spiderling Tank –

Requirements:

· Roughly 27k HP is the sweet spot depending on defense and affinity

· 200+ Resistance to keep poisons from overwhelming the tank

· Masteries (WM, Retribution, Improved Parry and Stubbornness are a must)

I used Sinesha as my spiderling tank, but there are alternatives that will work as well or better. Mainly, you need a hero that has an AoE A1 ability. Some base resist and decent base speed also help but are not required. Being force affinity will also help in ensuring the spiderlings target this hero and not others on your team but this is not strictly required with this setup. This is because rather than relying on high HP, Defense and speed to allow the spiderling tank to survive a full round of attacks from the spiderlings, we use masteries to allow the hero to counter attack and regain their HP between attacks. This means that having super high HP and defense for the spiderling tank is unnecessary, and actually counterproductive to this strategy, making gearing much easier both for the tank and for the other heroes on the team. This also means that using a tank that is not force affinity is much more viable. Psylar for example is probably ideal with this setup. As long as this hero has the lowest HP on the team and there are not any affinity conflicts (force will be higher priority target, magic will be lower), they should be the spiderling targets.

Masteries –

Here is the mastery build I used: https://i.imgur.com/ZSfB5Rv.jpg

There are really only three things you need out of masteries. The first is the Retribution mastery to trigger counter attacks at a 50% chance when the hero takes more than 25% of their health as damage from an attack. The second is the Warmaster mastery. This combined with a lifesteal set will mean that on an AoE attack, the hero will heal most or all of their HP. With defense down applied, WM procs will do over 21k damage to spiderlings and over 100k damage to the boss itself. You will struggle to heal enough without Warmaster. The third thing you need from masteries is survivability. The biggest issue you’ll have with the spiderling tank surviving is the variance in damage from the spiderlings. You need to manage your health to the point that even attacks on the low end of the damage scale will proc a counter, but that a couple crits in a row won’t kill you. The mastery Improved Parry helps here by reducing the damage from critical hits. Delay Death can also help here depending on your team composition. With my setup, the spiderlings were either CC’d or killed typically before getting a second attack, but this depends on the setup. Stubbornness is also a helpful mastery for making it progressively harder to stack additional poisons on the tank hero. I didn't use Resurgent on my build, mainly because I didn't think with 230 resist I'd be getting poisoned much, but it actually would have been helpful and maybe would have made my runs a little more consistent. u/StewGamingTV used it in his video on Zephyr Sniper and it did a fantastic job of keeping poisons off the tank.

Gear-

As far as gear for the tank, you really just want to make sure you have a life steal set and over 200 resist to prevent poison from overwhelming your tank. Speed also helps in reducing randomness in dying from multiple hits without a counter because you’ll get more natural attacks between spiderling hits. If the hero you’re using in this role does double duty in tanking and also applying debuffs or CC, you’ll also want 200+ accuracy to make sure those effects stick. Beyond that, you’ll want around 27k HP to be in a good position for counters based on my experience, though that may need to be higher or lower depending on your defense and affinity. In my case, I actually had to remove the ring from my Sinesha, as with it equipped, her HP was too high and she wasn’t countering on non-crits. This also makes it much easier to prevent other heroes from being targeted. With the high HP/Defense tank setup, Coldheart would need around 40k HP to keep from being focused, and this with a force affinity tank. The requirement would be even higher if you were using a tank of a different affinity. In my case, my Coldheart only had around 28k HP and was just fine. This also opens things up to tanks of affinities other than Force.

Ideal Tanks –

The best tanks for this role would be ones that have an AoE A1 attack and bring some extra utility to the fight. CC abilities, defense down/weaken, and turn meter reduction in particular are a huge help. Again, force affinity will help ensure this hero is targeted. Other affinities will require the other heroes in the team to be higher HP than the tank, and magic affinity will up that requirement considerably further, so I would avoid that if possible. Here are the heroes I think would work best in this role.

· Psylar – AoE A1, decrease accuracy debuff to help keep poisons from applying, decrease speed debuff to help with the boss itself and decrease turn meter. Her kit couldn’t be any more perfect for this encounter/role. Definitely try to make her work for this if you have her.

· Bad El – Force affinity makes him an ideal tank, and his heal from A1 on top of the damage it provides could even make it possible for him to serve in this role without a lifesteal set. Malice will allow him to cleanse any poison stacks that do stick to him, and his passive will help speed up the runs overall. He also has decent base speed, accuracy and resistance.

· Skullcrown – Another solid addition that should heal exceptionally well because of the double hit on enemies with more than 50% HP. Her unkillable debuff can proc and potentially cause the spiderlings to switch targets, but if it does, it's because the next hit would kill you anyways with no chance to counter, so it would have been a death with any other hero. Chances of you recovering a run after this aren't very good, but it is technically possible.

· Skartosis – Another force affinity option with great base speed and solid base resistance. His A2 might help speed up runs slightly and his A3 will help in clearing poisons and filling turn meter. In addition, as an added benefit, he can lead the team and provide a very helpful speed aura.

· Bellower – Decrease speed debuff will prove helpful if you don’t have the stronger version available. Same with decrease defense. One thing you will have to take into consideration with Bellower is the atk down debuff he can apply which may make it harder to find the correct HP range for counters.

·Warchief- Thanks for the tip from u/LeonSpartiatis on this one. I initially debated not adding it, because he doesn't need the counter mastery like the heroes above to work, but I guess he belongs in this guide more than one covering any of the other approaches. His strength in this role comes from the fact that the damage reflect from his passive ability can proc Warmaster. So you don't need to worry about the proc chance on the retribution mastery. In his case, you just gear him up with Lifesteal and make sure he has Warmaster and decent resists, and then watch and laugh as the spiderlings attacks trigger reflects and WM procs to keep him healed. With this strategy, you bypass the RNG associated with the Retribution mastery, and you can build him with higher HP because you don't have to worry about the spiderlings doing 25% of his health with each attack. I'd venture to guess that you could build a team around this that would be reliable enough to farm Spider 20. So if you have him, and are able to get WM on him, I'd definitely go this route.

Budget Options-

Nothing says you need a legendary or even epic tank for this strategy. Fellhound would make a great budget option with his AoE A1 that also has a speed reduction debuff. Saurus also works. And u/StewGamingTV did it with Zephyr Sniper in his video on the strategy.

Near Misses-

A few heroes would be perfect for the higher HP/Defense strategy that would be problematic here. Nazana and Infernal Baroness would be great for the Dierin strategy, but their 50% decrease attack debuff would make it very difficult to land on a good HP range for counters since there would essentially be two different damage spreads you’d have to worry about depending on if the spiderlings are debuffed or not. Big ‘Un and Rae would both be great if they weren’t magic affinity. Being that they are though, any non-magic heroes on the team will need higher HP than they would otherwise to keep from being targeted. They certainly could work, but you would have to plan the rest of your team accordingly. You would also have weak attacks to consider in setting your HP for counters. This does help in reducing the total health that a magic affinity hero will need however.

Others –

Anything not mentioned would probably work but doesn’t do anything worth mentioning, either positive or negative.

The Rest of the Team –

The rest of the team is going to be pretty much the same concept as in the Dierin strategy. The point of the remaining heroes is to keep the boss from having a turn through Decrease Speed debuffs, turn meter reduction, speed aura if available and speed/turn meter buffs for your team. The spider boss is very fast on level 20, and heals for millions of HP if she consumes the spiderlings, so even if you could survive the damage from that attack, out damaging the healing done by it is going to be very difficult. Keep in mind that for your debuffers, you’re going to need both high speed and high accuracy. Having a turn meter reduction attack resisted can spell the end of a run. Having a few different turn meter reduction skills on different cooldowns also is something you should try to do. In my case, Nethril and Coldheart had their turn meter reduction skills on the same cooldown, and the result would often be one of the two using their skill when the boss had only 20% turn meter, and then some sphincter clenching moments where the boss had a full turn meter as their reduction skills were coming back up. If these skills were more staggered, it wouldn’t be an issue. If you do have these skills on the same cooldown, having the Cycle of Magic mastery can help get them out of sync, but isn’t something you can rely on. You may also want to consider any masteries that help with speeding the heroes up (Arcane Celerity, Rapid Response, Lore of Steel if in speed sets, Whirlwind of Death, etc) and improve their accuracy (Pinpoint Accuracy, Charged Focus, Swarm Smiter). Warmaster and Giant Slayer will help with damage on the boss. Anything you can do here is helpful as the faster you finish, the less opportunity there is for bad RNG to rear its ugly head and get you killed. CC effects are also helpful for this purpose. They should not be the primary reason you chose a hero, but are another advantage for ones that also have turn meter reduction or speed buffs/debuffs.

Gear –

For the rest of the team, you’re going to want to have around 200 speed and accuracy in order to make sure debuffs stick and you don’t get beaten on speed alone. My team used Rae for the speed aura, and I still had problems getting enough turn meter reduction until I pushed Alure from 200 speed to 225. Beyond that, you’ll want to make sure that they have enough HP to keep from becoming spiderling food, and damage stats, as they’ll be the ones doing the bulk of the damage to the boss.

Ideal Heroes-

• · Coldheart – Not surprisingly, Coldheart is the MVP here. Heartseeker both does full turn meter reduction, and massive damage because it scales on enemy max HP. Her A2 is also useful for reducing the accuracy of the spiderlings to help the tank from becoming overwhelmed.
• · Nethril – Nethril is another solid hero here because he applies the speed reduction and slow debuff on his A2 in addition to the turn meter reduction on his A3. Mine did not have his A3 skilled to the CD reduction, but that would make him even better.
• · Tayrel – Provides defense down on the boss in addition to turn meter reduction. The decrease attack on the boss may also allow your team to survive one boss attack in a pinch. He also has a defense aura. You likely won’t need it with this strategy, but it could be helpful.
• · Royal Guard- Decrease defense and his A2 will help speed things up, and faster runs mean more consistency. His turn meter reduction isn’t the best, especially as you’ll likely only get one hit from his A3 on the boss, and even then, the turn meter reduction isn’t guaranteed.
• · Lua- Another full turn meter depletion, and her A1 and A2 attacks can also hit spiderlings. Killing a few to stagger the attacks on your tank rather than having them all go one after the other can help with survivability.
• · Big ‘Un – Not the best turn meter reduction, but combined with a decrease speed debuff, decrease accuracy and stun on the spiderlings, and solid AoE damage, he’s not a bad choice if you have a couple other solid turn meter reduction options.
• · Alure –She gets a mention here because she has turn meter reduction on her A1, so there’s no cooldown involved. If I could, I’d completely disable her A2 and A3 attacks for this fight. Keep in mind that the targeting on her A1 is random, so the first hit will hit the boss. The others will likely go to spiderlings. That said, because it is on her A1, it’ll be applied pretty consistently throughout the fight. Her A2 also helps with a sleep and decrease defense debuff on the spiderlings.
• · Stitched Beast - No joke here, Stitched beast is an amazing rare hero for this purpose. 100% turn meter reduction on a 4 turn cooldown when he's skilled up, and he also brings weaken as well.
• · Elfguard - A budget option that would also work really well if you wanted to skill and rank one up for the purpose. 50% turn meter reduction on a 2 turn (!) cooldown when skilled up is better in terms of meter manipulation than almost any of the heroes listed above.
• · Armiger- Another budget option for those lacking the legendaries/epics/rares listed above. Armiger will require 100% crit rate in addition to the speed and accuracy needed, but if you can pull this off, he provides a 30% turn meter reduction on his A1 (so better than Alure for this purpose since the second and third hit of her A1 are random and will almost always hit spiderlings) and his A2 is a damage based on enemy max HP attack. Don't expect it to do damage comparable to Coldheart, but for those that don't have her, he's a viable farmable alternative.

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Near Misses-

Rhazin is the big one here, because many will have him. Unfortunately being force affinity means he has a 35% chance to do a weak attack, meaning that if you’re relying on him for turn meter reduction, there’s a slightly better than one in three chance that you fail a run each time he has to use his A3. Lich is another that would be great here if not for force affinity. Maneater is another one that would be great from this, but according to u/khoainong05, he won't use his A2 on auto against the spider boss, so unfortunately, he wouldn't be viable here with that being the case. Lyssandra is another dissapointing one for this list as I've been told her A2 isn't used against Spider on auto.

Other Considerations –

There are some other options available to you if you’re lacking a great selection of the above turn meter reducing heroes. This will come mainly in the form of speed buffs and auras, and turn meter buffs for your heroes. I used Rae in my setup mainly for her speed aura, and for her defense down debuff and freeze debuff on the spiderlings. She isn’t ideal, but I was able to make it work because of her speed aura. Heroes like Arbiter, Golden Reaper and Apothecary could also be considered for this purpose. Additionally, defense down and weaken on the boss will considerably increase the damage done by Coldheart and/or Royal Guard so you should try to get these somewhere. The hero Spider could be considered for this purpose in addition to his speed aura. And my understanding is that because his A3 isn’t an actual attack that applies damage, it’s exempt from the chance of weak hits and therefore not applying the debuffs due to affinity. Just keep in mind he is force, so he’ll have preference as a spiderling target if his HP isn’t high enough. He also has a decrease atk debuff that would have to be accounted for in your tanks HP.

Final Thoughts –

I’ve tried to make this as comprehensive guide on this topic as I can, but keep in mind that I’ve only done it with my specific comp, so your mileage may vary. If there are any inaccuracies or changes needed, I’ll try to update the guide as they’re brought to my attention. Also keep in mind that this strategy, as with most that don’t include a team counter attack buffer, AoE HP burn, or 3+ CH/RG is not 100% reliable. I was able to clear spider 20 roughly 50% of the time with this setup, and my success rate could likely have been improved further if I had masteries on Alure (She only has tier 1 masteries as of the writing of this guide). That said, the intent of a setup like this is more for completing the mission to do spider 20 ten times on auto to get Arbiter than it is for building a team that can farm it consistently.

If you have read to this point, I hope you have found the guide to be helpful and worth the time it took to read it. If you have any questions, feel free to post them and I will try to answer as I am able. Also, special thanks to Gox1201 who gave me confirmation that this approach is viable, and the confidence to give it a try as a result, and to Deirin for his/her work on the original spider 20 force tank strategy.