Many women view themselves in the third person

Today in my aesthetics philosophy class we talked about the ”male gaze” and the woman as an object in art. During our discussion someone mentioned Margaret Atwood’s book, The Robber Bride. I have never read this book, but they explained an interesting topic brought up in the book. The book talks about how women view themselves in the third person due to being objectified and how the “male gaze” is inescapable.

One example of this is how we remember/think of ourselves. For example, when you think of a memory (any memory, recent or childhood, etc) do you view that memory through your eyes (first person) or do you view that memory as if you are watching it happen (third person)? In the book she talks about how a lot of women see/remember themselves as if they are watching a movie instead of seeing it from their own point of view. In contrast, many men view themselves in the first person and view memories/past events from their point of view.

For some reason thinking about this blew my mind. Isn’t it strange to view yourself in that way? I have to know if other women can relate to this.

TLDR: when you picture your favorite memory do you see it play out through your point of view/through your eyes, or do you view that memory from a third person point of view as if you were watching a movie?

Posted Oct 7, 2019, 10:16 PM UTC

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introvertedbard•

Huh that it is really fascinating! I do view memories of myself from the third person. Never realized that others may not.

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lukewarmteas•

Wow very interesting, I've always had memories seeing myself in third person, as well my dreams are in third person. My boyfriend has dreams seeing through his eyes and I always thought it was something random.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

Oh shit...I didn’t think about dreams.

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Aerial_penguin•

This is crazy.. women dream in 3rd person??

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Majikkani_Hand•

Often, yeah.

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nextron95•

Can you elaborate on this? How does this work? :o

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Holdn_Ford•

Men do this too. It's a human thing not an inherently, or socially applied, female thing. Many people, male and female, view their dreams and memories from both the first and third person. I'm not sure if this is to do with the difference between accurate recall of memories vs the recall of what you THINK is a memory and is mainly a recreation of what you THINK the memory should be. Sometimes in dreams people (men and women) don't experience themselves at all and basically have a narrative dream which they play no part of except as spectator.

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Rabbit-hole philosophy often leads to thought experiments and explorations that after a while have no real relevance to reality but support a certain political or personal view. Kind of like confirmation bias.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

The idea of narrative dreams are cool. Also didn’t think of that an an option. It’s cool how people experience life differently. Thanks for sharing :)

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Holdn_Ford•

I had my first ever one quite recently and ended up looking it up because it felt so odd. I was basically just watching a murder mystery at a dinner party and could follow whatever characters I liked. I got weirded out when I woke up and did some google diagnosis.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

From what I understand, Atwood’s theory can be summarized as this: Women have been represented as sexual objects throughout history. The female image was created for men to be be consumed by men. We are constantly being viewed as attractive objects, and being sexualized. Her theory suggests that this constant “male gaze” has affected how women view themselves. Therefore, women are their own voyeur because we “gaze” upon ourselves (in the third person).

Here is a quote from the book for reference: “Male fantasies, male fantasies, is everything run by male fantasies? Up on a pedestal or down on your knees, it's all a male fantasy: that you're strong enough to take what they dish out, or else too weak to do anything about it. Even pretending you aren't catering to male fantasies is a male fantasy: pretending you're unseen, pretending you have a life of your own, that you can wash your feet and comb your hair unconscious of the ever-present watcher peering through the keyhole, peering through the keyhole in your own head, if nowhere else. You are a woman with a man inside watching a woman. You are your own voyeur”.

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TheIreLure•

Is there actual scientific research (i.e. surveys or interviews conducted as studies) which supports this person's claims? Or is this just philosophy trying to make sense of an anecdotal trend?

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

The latter.

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firenzey87•

Ok this has blown my mind..

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

Right!? My brain hurts. I can see it hurting from a third person perspective.

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caeloequosUnicorns are real.•

I think I have some mild form of aphantasia, so I really don't picture my memories in any way. I just kind of...remember the facts about what happened, although I guess what I do picture/recall is in first person, but it's fleeting and not really a solid picture.

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GeckoVanderwahl•

This sounds like horse shit.

No, I do not remember things in third party.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

It’s just a theory, not fact. Kind of crazy, but lots of people seem to fit the category. It’s interesting to think about. I posted a comment that goes more in depth about the theory, if you are interested.

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[deleted]•

Hmm. This is actually super fascinating to me because despite the fact that I wasn't raised as a girl (I'm trans), I absolutely do recall pretty much all my memories (especially the ones before my transition) in third person, and I have done so for pretty much as long as I can remember.

This fact sorta makes me wonder if there's another variable at play, considering that as a child, I didn't have to go through most of the "You are an object" conditioning that most AFAB women did.

Either way, it's very fascinating.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

There is most definitely other factors at play, and it definitely doesn’t apply to everyone. it’s interesting that you can relate to it as well.

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Dr_mombie•

Interesting! I see my memories and dreams in first person, but I generally rember my clothes in memories.

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SaffronBurke•

I experienced most of my early childhood in third person. Being fully in my body wasn't super common.

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__vanta__black•

Holy shit.... I’ve ... Wow. My mind is BLOWN. I’ve got to read this book now!

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BunchOfBabyDux•

I find that a lot of the things I remember (particular from childhood) I’ve been reminded of because there are photos/video footage. Whatever was occuring in the image I might otherwise have forgotten by now. In my case I think I recall these memories in the third person because that’s the way the image is! Memories that I simply just remember without these prompts, I recall in first person.

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Sarah-Sunshine9OPQueef Champion•

Your point about “memories” being influenced by photos and the like is such a good point. This is also very applicable to me currently because I am taking a class on portraiture and identity. So many things influence (and possibly make up) how we view or identify ourselves.

Thanks for sharing!

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