Michelle Waterson hits the WMMA special on Paige VanZant
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gfycat.comPosted Oct 7, 2019, 10:42 PM UTC
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gfycat.comEvery female fighter’s kryptonite.
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and Tai's
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Nunes vs Tai book it Dana
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To be fair, the throw that Tai kept getting hit with was more of a Tai-Otoshi than this throw
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Of course Tai-Otoshi is Tai's cryptonite! How could we have been so blind!
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That move never failed during recess in fifth grade
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Why is that the WMMA special?
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Because it's a pretty basic technique. It seldom Works among mens fighter, but you still pretty commonly see it in women's MMA
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Didn't Spivak use it against Tai
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Like I said, basic and elementary
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Yea Tai is terrible he’s just hyped because he’s from Australia.
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Yep. He can hit hard, has a personality and is fr Australia which the ufc is pushing atm
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Tai and Tyson Pedro being considered "prospects" was absolutely hilarious
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Cub hits it as well. You see it a lot in mens mma as well but not remotely as much in womens mma. Its like to go to takedown in womens mma.
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Heavyweight is the WMMA of MMA
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You should take over hosting duties for Blow the Belt
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women generally fight better than heavyweight mma fighters.
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Isnt wmma the wmma of mma
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He did, you could see the frustration on Tai’s face right after it happened
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Yes. The same Tai that reacted to an arm triangle by pushing deeper into it.
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Not same throw. Spivak landed a harai goshi vs the ogoshi the women use.
Also Tai is a fucking terrible grappler, hence why it worked.
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Tai was moving into him trying to body lock though - it makes it harder to counter if you're doing that.
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random theory: it's efficacy in wmma is also helped by hair. The increased friction makes it harder to pop the head out when you try to take the back. Of course, this isn't an explanation on it's own, but I think it might be part of it.
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Makes sense to me considering it's also a lot better with a gi for basically the reason you explained.
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I was going to say the same thing.
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Why won’t it work on men?
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It's a pretty low skill move that isnt difficult to defend, the skill difference between most women and men fighters is pretty substantial
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I disagree with this from the disproportionately high amount of these throws landing cleanly amongst many of the highest leveled women's fighters.
My guess is that men's innate upper body development around the chest causes the mechanics of the throw to be not efficient. Perhaps men more easily push and frame off the body as it's set up using their stronger push muscles.
Just a guess, but I dont see how some of these women's coaches aren't just teaching them to defend better if the issue is skill.
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You see it in used successfully in high school wrestling as well, particularly at lower weight classes. I think it has something to do with body type.
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Its more common in upper weight classes. Fat people love this move but damn near every freshman does to. Heavyweights do this threw senior year but non of them ever take shots.
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Or when Darrion Caldwell hits it on Brent Metcalf in the NCAA finals
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The times I’ve seen it happen in men’s MMA have had very mixed results. Often, the person trying the move gets their back taken. Because essentially they give their back up in hops that the person can’t get their hips down, grab a body lock while they are behind them, or hook the opposite side leg of the headlock. WMMA is much newer and has a much lower participation rate, so the quality happens to be a bit lower. This can be seen by the record of new undefeated fighters in the UFC. Women with a 4-0 record are at a level that the UFC is ready to sign them. If you had a 4 round tournament to get a 4-0 person, you need 16 people. With men, they sign around 8-0 to 12-0 for undefeated prospects (our new middle weight champ was 11-0 when he got signed). If you wanted a 8 round tournament to get 1 person to 8-0, you need 256 people. For 11-0, you need 2048. That’s just a lot more people the best individual out of 16 people vs the best individual out of 256 people is almost always going to lead to the larger sample size being better quality.
With that said, WMMA is coming with a path paved by the men’s divisions and they are developing much faster than the men’s divisions did.
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I wonder if that's in part due to women having wider hips and narrower shoulders. That should make it easier to load the other person onto their hip and complete the throw.
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I wouldn't say its basic. It's as advanced as any other technique. But it is true that you really only see this in wmma and high school wrestling. I have a feeling it might have something to do with the body types/weight-classes because I don't think its due to the technique being any more or less effective or difficult to defend.
Although I will say a lot of people don't favour it because it exposes your back. I tend to agree but I suppose its a risk/reward calculation for the person in question.
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Most male opponents end up taking the back off the attempt.
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Funnily enough Paige tried a head and arm throw earlier in the fight and Michelle took her back
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ya it was a good contrast between someone who does it right (Michelle) and someone with the proverbial meme tier head and arm spam (Paige)
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Women attempt it way more than men.
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women want to get a takedown but lack the power/technique to do a double or single-leg
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Even when Ronda nearly got choked out by Carmouche from doing this, she and most other females kept on doing it.
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but to be fair, Ronda had a nasty hip-toss. I think there is a difference when a judoka attempts it vs when other people attempt it. Fedor has some good hip-tosses as well
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GSP and Jon Jones, too.
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The way she locked that body triangle was slick.
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Fer shure b
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My bad I fell asleep on my phone
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Water we dune here B? Can't be falling asleep on the toilet.
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Spivak hit it multiple times against tai this weekend. Was dope to see
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of course its a head and arm throw lol./
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Knees to set it up and quick execution. Starts to transition from scarf the second it felt unstable. This is quite a bit better than the head grab and slow drag that everyone likes to make fun of. Though, I don't think anyone's ever accused VanZant of having a technical clinch game.
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Fight of the year
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We saw a couple of these in a male heavyweight fight over the weekend
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50 percent of the time, it works every time.
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I really, reaallly, reaaallly enjoyed watching this fight.
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Paige was so easily beaten in this fight its hilarious she believes shes worth more because her skillset is extremely small unless shes fighting Bec Rawlings and gets a flukey kick
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Why the fuck was Vanzant ever ranked so high?
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She was 4-1 in UFC with 3 finishes, coming off a head kick KO, with her only loss being to Rose.
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Shhh no facts only recency bias
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Yuuuup.
She has a UFC record of 5-3. She shattered her arm and continued in one loss, lost to a future champion in one, and lost to a former Invicta champ in the other.
jUsT rEtIrE aNd iNsTaGrAm mOdEl
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She didnt have amazing credentials to begin with, the UFC kinda fed her fighters. Every decent fighter shes fought against, she's lost to. I know women who worked harder, trained longer, and never got picked up by the UFC
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Also, because 115 is as deep as a kiddie pool.
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Also true.
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She’s a legit fighter and fucking tough as nails.
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Karate Hottie has a ring to it but the Karate label is getting a little out of date. Hottie part is still perfect. 😀
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I better see you complaining that Joe B should change his nickname from Joe Jitsu to Joe MMA the next time one of his threads pops up.
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what about 'Head & Arm Throw Hottie'?
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Yeah. That was what I was getting at. She is more than just Karate now. Can’t come up with something better that Karate Hottie though.
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Tomko: No.
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The official move of WMMA and JV high school wrestlers.
Yo dont talk shit my man, I won 3 matches in one day with just that throw in 9th grade lol
We were specifically not taught that because our coach thought it was bullshit. Then our first meet almost half of us got pinned from that throw lol.
That hiptoss got me through man tournaments against shorter opponents!
Fuck, this is the best comment I've ever seen. If I weren't so broke I'd give you gold.
EDIT: How Ironic.
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It’s a very simple move that, if not defended, is pretty easy to pull off whilst looking cool and landing you in a good position: problem is anyone who’s put in more than a year of wrestling or BJJ (without starting from the knees during rolling) should be able to defend it easily and take the opponent’s back if they over-commit to the throw. For whatever reason a ton of the girls in WMMA both love going for this whilst simultaneously being unable to defend it. Paige VanZant and Kailin Curran both hit each-other with this throw like 2 times each in their fight lol.
A year? More like 3 - 6 months.
Can we get 1-2 months? I just want to know where the gate is.
Nah, man it's not that easy to counter if done under the right condition. If the opponent is moving into you and is trying to get a body lock it's not that easy for them to counter. Watch how the Moldova guy hit Tuivasa with it last weekend. He set it up way better than Waterson did.
Ronda
Absence of other takedowns
All you really have to do to defend it is put your hands on their hips and push, I haven't wrestled in like 10 years but it's what I sort of remember.
Hey, Tuivasa got hit by the same throw by that young Moldova Cat last weekend. It's legit but definitely better when you're opponent tries to bodylock you and is moving into you.