Official Pimax Day 2 Announcements Video
Posted Oct 30, 2019, 9:37 PM UTC
1964
sooo where the heck are my kickstarter base stations and glasses insert? jesus, got the headset laying at home for month now, without being able to use it...
19
I flat out expected them to screw us over on base stations and controllers so I just bought a vive when I got my pimax headset and use the controllers and base stations from that instead... Still pretty sad that it feels like they'll never ship those to the backers though.
6
yeah, I just happen to not have the cash at hand to buy another headset for like half a k to a k, so thats no option for me.
2
Are you in the US? I bought a used Vive kit for $320 when I got my Pimax. I will probably gift it to my nieces and nephew of Pimax ever sends me the base stations and controllers - but I could also sell it for a little less than I paid for it if I wanted to.
2
nope, central EU here. since I recently got into warhammer (got time to kill since i cant use my friggen headset) I’m kinda broke anyways :D
2
"End game on that". No date given again.
4
Basestations begin to ship Monday. We did a few things with the PLA, 1) we are releasing the files for it on thingiverse and 2) we integrated it into the eye tracking so they both can co-exist. We'll also put up a form where we print it using a high precision printer and ship it to you.
1
that sounds promising! I take it all back if the base stations really arrive! I think what bothered me most was the lack of communication over the last few years (most updates via email I got where things like preorders for retail starting and nothing on the missing content for backers and such!)
this is actually good news, thanks!
3
ok, so if you’re a 5k+ HMD only kickstarter backer (coming from an original 8k backing, probably the majority of users), and want a new fancy 8KX, you give up your stretch goals, and get:
1299 - $100 (already spent, coupon we're owed) - lose the promised eye tracking (already been through this, which was at least a couple hundred) - all other promised stuff
So, $1299 - $100 coupon = $1199
Say all of the stretch goals worth (including the promised eye tracking) are $250, go review them, there’s a lot.. and they priced the eye tracking alone at $299, so $250 isn't a stretch.
$1199 - $250 = $949
Checks the offer C price… $949.
So where’s the discount? Seems like just a “free” headstrap to me since it will come with one. Also, they have a "deluxe" model that comes with headphones, I'm guessing the offer is not the deluxe, so you get a headstrap minus the headphones, as promised on the stretch goals.
I was hoping for a much better discount for backers.
Edit: as pointed out below, it's probably D offer for my example here.. and $1049 + tax + shipping.. so $1200+ to "upgrade with a discount" and not receive any eye tracking or extra items except a head strap (and i'm guessing no headphones)
14
Yep it isn't really much of a deal.
5
Is it actually offer C. Isn't it offer D? It implies you have a full package that you are giving up on C doesn't it?
2
I'm pretty sure it's C. The screen caps of the offers are here https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/move-here-to-discuss-pimax-day-2/23028/6
A & C are if you did 8k->5k+ as a backer. A is full bundle purchase, C is HMD only purchase.
B & D are if you are a 8k or 5k (non plus) purchaser that didn't go through the switch and coupon thing. B is full bundle purchase, D is HMD only purchase.
So, for me and my example, I believe it's C, as an 8k->5k+ HMD only kickstarter.
Then, on each of the cards you have option 1 and 2, 1 is where you give up the eye tracking discount, and 2 is if you don't.
For me, I'd take option 1 because if the 8KX is as good as they claim, then I think I'd be fine with that.. but as I pointed out, it's really just moving shells around.. there is no real discount.
Edit: maybe it is D lol... so, add another $100 on my example.. not entirely sure.. typical pimax fashion
https://forum.pimaxvr.com/t/move-here-to-discuss-pimax-day-2/23028/6
6
Are you sure about that? It has text on C saying 'keep the bundle' doesn't that imply that you have to have bought a bundle? That is the thing that threw me....then they are also charging shipping on top.....
3
I edited.. yea, not sure.. thanks for pointing out the details
2
I really wonder if I will ever see just one piece of the promised stretchgoals or just 1$ of my theoretically 150$ they owe me.
I'm done with Pimax for the future.
13
I suspect no as the cynic in me thinks they need to convert their liabilities to us in the form of stretch goals to revenue to avoid going under. Rather than being discounts they are just direct conversions from liabilities to selling new headsets so while good for their business is terrible value for backers. They wouldn't be doing that unless they had to as they know it will produce a backlash.
I think PiMax is in trouble and hoping backers will dig them out.
7
Pimax seems to be in big trouble.
I am curious how long they will continue to offer new products without fulfilling their Kickstarter obligations.
Funny is also that people never learn they are lied to more and more and still believe that Pimax will change.
Goodbye Pimax
12
[removed]
0
Dont forget the taxes!
Yup, if you goto checkout you have to pay around another $220
As someone has pointed out in forums. this is just a trick to sell us another headset, and an excuse to not send out the stretch goals!
12
None of this makes any sense!
Last video, they said the Sword controllers (what about Sword Sense?) were not coming until March - but don't worry, there would be a way to swap them out for Index controllers and get them sooner. There was zero further information about the Sword or Sword Sense controllers in this video, so I am guessing that March is optimistic.
(And, yes, they talked about getting in "the controllers" next month in this video, they they were heavily featuring the Index controllers as they said this. If they meant they would be able to ship Sword or Sword Sense controllers next month, they could have been clearer about this. But there was no fanfare that would have accompanied a "We're five months early on the controllers!" announcement, so I have to assume they were talking about Index controllers.)
The slide entitled 'Controller Upgrade Program' says that a backer can upgrade their Sword controllers to Index controllers for $179. First of all, it's impossible for backers to have pledged for Sword controllers - PimaxUSA confirmed here that backers who purchased either a bundle or standalone controllers are owed Sword Sense controllers, not Sword controllers. Thus, this offer does not apply to any existing backers, except possibly those who put money down for Sword (non-Sense) controllers in a post-Kickstarter pre-order.
But if that slide was intended to apply to controller backers, then that suggests that the value of a pair of Sword Sense controllers is only $100? The Sword controllers were previously offered for pre-order in a bundle with base stations for a $300 deposit. This cost would make sense - if the backers were getting Sword controllers rather than Sword Sense controllers, and if the deposit was the whole cost of the bundle. I suppose one possibility here is that backers have been quietly downgraded from Sword Sense controllers to Sword controllers, like the eye tracking module.
At the bottom of the same slide, though, they claim you can pre-order base stations and Index controllers for $279. That's the price of Index controllers from Valve. 2.0 base stations are $150 each from Valve. So, are people who didn't back for bundles getting a $300 discount over people who backed for the bundle? Why are they devaluing their own controllers to $50 each in one row and giving away $300 in base stations in another? Is there an unwritten assumption that you are burning coupons to get these prices?
It really seems like the controllers part of this upgrade program has been poorly thought-out, at least from the perspective of someone who backed for them. The price for swapping from Sword Sense controllers to Index controllers (if that's what was intended) makes no sense when you consider that the two controllers are supposed to have feature parity.
11
Still charging for eye tracking. Reduced it another $100 for backers but still not what they offered in the kickstarter.
Edit: For the first time they also said the kickstarter was only offering 1 eye and in testing they found they needed two hence the increase. Should point out that is what they are now claiming and it is the first time I have heard that.
10
Me too! It was never mentioned eye tracking would be for one eye. They're lying as usual.
5
Other headsets would be ok with one eye. There is too little binocular overlap for that to work as well with Pimax.
2
I checked KS site, indeed it was just one eye unit, but never realized that that would be a one I unit, and they had never mentioned this. Either from the beginning they had thought about this scheme, or this Kevin guy came up with this genius idea! Such suckers they are..
0
Even with only one that actually does anything, a dummy one on the other side would be a good idea if you want 2 that bad.
2
You can easily see this in the kickstarter photo of the device. It was off-the-shelf single eye device exactly as pictured. Once we started receiving samples it just didn't work well with a single eye, then we started testing with two eyes but it still required further changes. The thing is we want it to be a nice upgrade.
0
Checkout KS Update 39
0
There a summary somewhere of this? Not going to sit through this painful video if I can help it!
9
the summary is there's really no discount. they take the MSRP and delete from it what they already owe you, and that's your price.
9
As I’m not a backer I was more interested in new products like what is that gray headset being shown around. They really are burning the bridge of their loyal supporters it would seem. Not a great way to build a successful business.
5
I missed that in my summary sorry, it is a silicon cover to make the headset bump proof (not drop proof).
2
- pimax.com launched where you can do upgrade stuff.
- New rubberised silicon protectors for headsets (hideous looking things, a headset survived a 1.5 foot drop with one on so bump proof but not drop proofing).
- Bunch of upgrade plans you can pay money to upgrade to 8KX, and base stations and controllers, plans A through G.
- No dates are given on anything expected.
- Some performance improvement based on field of view adjustments by changing the base resolution of headsets, no expected gain given.
- They announced a new silicon cover that makes the headset bump proof (the silver spiky thing)
I think that was it.
8
Thanks. No new lens news? That’s a shame.
3
Are we expecting lense news? There were plenty of backers asking about distortions and sweviver was ignoring those types of questions completely. They definitely weren't addressing that in the comments despite their pledge at the beginning to answer questions!
2
Its probably not something they can universally solve without eye tracking to make a dynamic distortion profile.
It might be something the community can improve by making a process to generate user specific distortion profiles though. Not a universal fix but a way to ensure you minimize distortion.
2
Reduced the price further for eye tracking, further enhancements to performance in pitool (not just physical resolution), mentioned base station and controller imminent availability (first LH shipments to customers Monday btw), updated production status on a number of items (mas on track, eye tracking ahead of schedule) - both DO indeed have dates btw from pd1, annouced 8k+ and X now have RE housing, + now comes with MAS included and a number of other items as well.
0
Wireless module - "lots of effort gone into that" "not forgotten about that".
No estimate given on when available. Intending to show a video soon showing a prototype working.
6
They say 3D-printing the stretchgoals is an option
(!)
3
Can someone make a summary of this video? Don't want to watch it all to get the infos.
2
so where is the pitool alpha download? its such pain in the ass to navigate the forum and find download
2
First post in the 8K section.
1
Who is that chipmunk at the right
1
So apparently it's easier to make the 8kx than a head band.
FTFY
No dates given just "rapidly".
It probably is actually is. Designing the hardware of the headset they have specific goals that are much easier to evaluate as met or not.
Resolution X? Check... FOV X? Check...
Comfortable? Well that's much harder to evaluate if you met your goal.
We have a lot of HMDs out there and it doesnt seem like any one stands out as vastly superior in terms of comfort. It's a really hard problem. I'm actually surprised Pimax is taking it as seriously as they are. I expected them to just release something cheap where most people felt it was better than the flex strap.
As someone who has developed electronics for image processing systems (and is currently developing a semi-AR system [more of a wearable application-specific HUD than anything]), I very much disagree that it's "oh hey, image!".
It is an extremely lengthy process from research of COTS components, to trade studies, to developing, purchasing, and building everything for testbeds for software people, to developing multiple revisions of prototype hardware, diagnosing problems, businessmen telling you "that's too expensive choose something else", redesigning around those parameters, working out the kinks, then designing the mechanical system around what is feasible. And that's the simplified timeline. Yeah, having previous hardware helps sometimes, but in ways you'd only understand if you've done something similar. Not to mention optics, but some guy put out some fantastic research on thin optics that would really help at this point.
With the Advent of 3d printing, it should take a team of 2-3 mechanical engineers, a process/systems engineer, and a human-faced researcher for testing/surveying (and maybe a seamster/ress//upholsterer), 3-4 months (6 at the extreme) to develop a system as simple as a headstrap. Especially with as many examples of what does and doesn't work already out there.
I really hope you're right, and considering it's approaching a year I've had this thing in-hand for, it better be the best thing since sliced bread.
I didn't mean to imply creating an HMD is easy. It's just that it's easier to evaluate if you've met your design goal when it comes did we achieve X spec for Y price compared to something not objective like "is this comfortable".
Again, agree to disagree here. There's so much that goes into the design of products.
Is this case thick enough, but also light enough, is this screwhole large enough, is this the right screw, are these lenses good enough (also subjective), do I sacrifice x to achieve a better IPD range? Not to mentions these are (usually) much more "make or break" than head strap comfort. People are willing to make some tradeoffs, that's why market valuation exists. At what point are 5% of your customers no longer willing to make the trade-off? I have a feeling that this will be my last PiMax product unless they manage to dramatically fix their blatantly lying and not following through, because I hit my floor about 3 months ago. (Millennials are the least brand-loyal generation yet, so that's a problem for PiMax)
Quantifying something like comfort is actually quite easy, and comfort is usually one of those things that are dictated by marketing, business, and other similar departments that have all the models done to predict product success. What they do is have a threshold, say, where at least 30% of respondents must say that our product is much more comfortable, 65% at least as comfortable, and less than 5% respond less comfortable than product y. If the product doesn't hit the mark, and the survey is deemed valid (also ways of testing that, thanks IBM), then if the product is brought to market, it is x% more likely to perform under the line.
Is Pimax at least paying you to have such a crazy opinion? Just no. Currently, we are all modifying DAS's. When the headstrap comes out, it's not going to be perfect. It's probably going to be marginally better than the DAS that we all have been using. However, it will be stock, and hopefully be a more rigid connection than the 3d printed adapters. Completely unacceptable to not have it out yet, and as someone else said, this is purely driven by money and the fact that Pimax does not care about stretch goals.
MRTV toured and even confirmed as much. They would rather build headsets than make good on backer rewards. Your apologetics are completely unnecessary here, and Pimax really doesn't deserve you as such a loyal super-fan.
I haven't even seen Pimax head strap design. My opinion I'd based on the fact that everybody has sucky straps and nobody has figured out how to make a good one yet.
The Rift S has a notably comfortable strap with premium memory foam/gel feeling material. You can choose to carry the weight on your forehead, and/or headstrap. Once, you find the balance, it's more comfortable than every other headset I own. In comparison, the Valve Index still uses the grip your face design, or carry all the weight on your head, which is painful after a while.
Pimax appears to still be using cheap itchy foam, as you can see in the photos.
A lot of people complain about the Samsung Odyssey+ comfort and its open face gasket. I personally find if I wear the back below the skull as they show you should that the weight gets spread between the forehead and the base of the skull and it is really quite comfortable. As to the face gasket having space at the bottom to see out of it is immensely useful for finding the keyboard and providing air to cool it making it more comfortable than a closed headset for a long time. It is a lot more comfortable than my original Vive was, I prefer the forehead/skull pressure system to on the face and I can't see out while looking at the screen so it doesn't break immersion.
I personally don't own a headset with that style of strap nor have I used one long enough to say for certain I find them overall more comfortable.
However I can say thee are some fairly big trade offs using the forehead design. You get more light leak and they seem to slide out of place more frequently/easily. I have not tried Rift S yet though.