Source
r/KGATLW•
Fleamon

Why Superbug is very scary (and a really great song)

Hi folks, I'm an undergrad student going into medical laboratory science, and this song resonated with me the moment I heard it simply because it's not super far off from reality. Hopefully I can spread some awareness about an important issue, and also make people appreciate the song better.

There are a group of microbes called the ESKAPE pathogens. They are six different pathogens that pose a threat due to their antibiotic-resistant strains. I'm not going to list them all, all you need to understand are there are versions of bacteria out there that some medicines cannot touch. MRSA (methicillin-resistant staphylococcus aureus) is a commonly-known antibiotic-resistant infection. In the words of my old microbiology professor, we are currently not developing new antibiotics fast enough in order to keep up with how fast bacteria currently adapt. If we do not find new medical solutions to resistance, we could potentially return to the "medical dark ages". Imagine antibiotics being rendered completely ineffective and all infections having the potential to become fatal. This is what I believe the song "superbug" is referring to. It just shows how aware Stu and the band really are with current threats to humanity.

#How does this happen?

Essentially, bacteria evolve at a very fast rate because of how often they reproduce. By applying pressure on their populations through the use of antibacterial agents we are eliminating ~99% of them every time, but that 1% that is left is now free to use all of the resources and space that was left behind. The 1% simply has a genetic mutation ( that happened completely by chance) that allowed it to survive the antibiotic. Now it is left to reproduce and pass this gene on to its offspring. What you are left with is a population of bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. Usually they are resistant to only certain kinds, but, unsuccessful treatment of a strain that is resistant to one kind of antibiotic can become resistant to two, and potentially 3, 4, etc. Leading to the creation of a superbug.

The problem is most common in hospitals where disinfections occur on a daily basis. Nosocomial (hospital) infections are one of the most common forms of antibiotic-resistant infections because anti-microbial cleaning products and antibiotics are used there so often.

Additionally, antibiotic use is widespread in animal agriculture. Rather than wait for a disease to show up to start giving their livestock antibiotics they will simply include antibiotics in their feed to preemptively prevent disease. This is done for the animals entire lifespan. There is evidence to show that the antibiotic-resistant microbes stay in the earth as well, and continue to reproduce after the animals defecate, and even stay in the meat after the animal is slaughtered. It's gotten a little better over the past few years, but antibiotic use in agriculture is by far one of the biggest offenders that propagates this issue.

#What can I do?

  • Listen to your doctor. Do not take antibiotics for a viral infection. Antibiotics are only good against bacteria, not viruses. Take the full course of antibiotics, do not stop taking them early unless your doctor instructs you to do so. Do not throw away leftover antibiotics (or any prescription medicine!) instead find a designated drop-off center that will take leftover medicine.

  • Fight in local and state governments to ban the unethical use of antibiotics on livestock.

  • Try to elect government officials that are pro-science.

  • Avoid unnecessary use of antibiotic/antimicrobial products at home! Most antimicrobial soaps/cleaners are overkill unless somebody in the household is sick. Regular soap works just fine for most cleaning purposes.

This is mostly from the top of my head from microbiology class and I literally typed this up in like 30 minutes. I'm sure that I screwed up somehow. If there is anybody who happens to know more about the subject then I do I'd be happy to make corrections.

TL;DR- Superbug is based on a real threat to public health and that's why its pretty damn scary (and also a fantastic song.)

Edit: Also I forgot to mention that the line "shoulda used phages" is a reference to bacteriophages which are just one of the possible treatments for superbug infections that is currently being researched!

I've been wanting to make this post for a while. I'm going to go study for my quiz now.

Edit 2: Holy crap, guys. I was expecting this to get buried. I’m glad to see that some discussion is coming out of this as well. Thanks to whoever gave me gold, I’ve never gotten that before.

Posted Oct 30, 2019, 10:20 PM UTC · edited

56071
BIG_daddysauce•

How does Stu know about everything?

115
present_tense_:12barbruise:•

All is known

118
belaxi•

"It is known"

Gizzverse confirmed.

16
[deleted]•

[deleted]

34
harrystuff123•

im picturing stu as Gary from spongebob when Gary is a studying savant with a cloak and extensive library...https://i.redd.it/0pij49ybokwz.jpg url for reference

11
SeeYouSpaceCowboy---:mindfuzz:•

he's in the mindfuzz

3
terjr•

Even in space there are spaceships

3
Shartgun_•

Zeus knows everything

2
Larmazul•

Interesting read, Thanks OP.

55
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

No problem! :D

20
weirdobot•

Thank you for your service you upstanding citizen

46
GasInTheHole•

Good luck getting your degree, OP! :)

41
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

Muchos Gracias! :)

18
InternetDaemon•

More than being researched right now, they were widely used to great effect in the USSR. Not to be a conspiratorial commie but a highly probable reason that they didn't get used in the US even after we had access to Soviet research is their permanency. Once you have a phage, that's it, you're basically cured forever. That's not very profitable. And this is the US, where the government had to twist the arm of pharma companies to make fucking penicillin during WW2 because it wasn't patented and thus profitable.

28
HunterPoyo:gator:•

I'm studying Bioscience tech, and when we were studying microbial resistance the song kept on playing though my head every time I read something similar to the lyrics :P

16
savantidiot13•

Did anyone not already know what superbugs are before this album came out? It's not a new concept at all.

9†
_weird_fishes•

Me

17
Nolf4•

Me as well

8
thatoboekid•

sick username bro. glad you know about superbugs now, tell your friends and state reps

4
MaxRenn•

Wait till you learn about the other messages in the album.

2
thomaskyd:sketches:•

Is there only a limited variety of antibiotics? Couldn't we just hypothetically develop a continual stream of new antibiotics to destroy any emerging superbugs?

7
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

There's a-lot of factors at play there.

Many antibiotics are derived from existing microbes, whether it be fungi, or bacteria, and we'd need to keep discovering new microbes and hope that one of them has some kind of component we can isolate and safely use as medicine. That is, unless we can harness the power of bacteriophages, or some other kind of treatment that I'm not aware of. There's a-lot of research being done on this topic, which is good. The problem is new drugs take years to develop, and even more time for clinical trials. It might be a decade or longer before a newly discovered antibiotic reaches patients.

So, the question is, how fast can we discover microbes with antibiotic properties? If we do discover them, can they be used safely? Can they be mass produced?

Of course money is a factor is well. I don't know how much money the government pours into this kind of research. Based on the impression I got from my microbiology class (and the current administration) I'd guess not enough.

9
Sleep_Drifter1319:gator:•

This is my 6 year old son's favorite song 🤘

7
MaxRenn•

Missed support Medicare 4 all so people can get immunized and also get sicknesses addressed before they get worse or expose others.

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bluePachyderm:fmb:•

I think the problem is bigger than the economic aspect of healthcare, this is a worldwide threat and you're pointing out a United States issue. Of course the less people have access to healthcare the harder it will be to fix a massive medical issue, but even with everybody getting access if the core problem is not addressed then it will still be superbug time.

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MaxRenn•

The core problem is healthcare systems being used to make profit instead of using it to better our lives. Let the doctors practice, let the scientists develop and research. When you bring profits into it you start to reduce, deny, and focus on maximizing those profits. Keeping people sick is profitable.

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bluePachyderm:fmb:•

The core problem is healthcare systems being used to make profit instead of using it to better our lives

That is a problem, but I wouldn't say it's the core problem on the topic of the song. You can still have a fair medical system that over utilizes anti-bs where the issue you point out is taken care of but superbugs still take over. Not all healthcare systems are profit-centered but this problem prevails in the world. Again: you're looking at a global issue through a US lens.

When you bring profits into it you start to reduce, deny, and focus on maximizing those profits

I both agree and disagree with this: while it is more profitable to keep people on heart medicine than to develop a one-off cure, for example, it is also true that profit is the best motivator for innovation. Why do you think so many medical innovations come from the US? If someone is loaded and they need the best surgeon, do they travel to The States or Canada? Things are rarely black and white. I don't think removing profit from the equation will do any good, but I do think there needs to be some kind of social accountability where corporate decisions are ensured not to go against the well-being of the population, in this and other public fields.

1
MaxRenn•

Profit does not drive innovation. Innovation has come primarily out of the public sector and not the private. Infact every piece of core technology we use today is largely due to the state; through funding or by developing the technology itself (socialized risk) and then used by private (privatized reward).

Read The Entrepreneurial State Debunking Public vs. Private Sector Myths by Mariana Mazzucato.

1
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

As horrible as it sounds superbugs wiping out a good chunk of humanity would be good news for the planet/ the never ending list of endangered species. I'm tired of people only being able to see things like global warming and deforestation etc as a problem for us and us alone, it's so damn selfish of humanity - most of the media/ politics talks about how it will affect our qualities of life, whilst mass extinctions are just kinda left there as a footnote people gloss over.

5
mniZero•

it really wouldn't, because the problem is more complicated than "too many people". unequitable distribution of resources, wealth being concentrated into fewer and fewer hands, wasteful practices like planned obscolence, stuff that can't be sold just being thrown out - blaming overpopulation is just a way to distract from the real issue, which is that the planet is being destroyed for the pursuit of profit.

14
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

I understand that change needs drastic social and political adjustments for it to be lasting, and yes overpopulation is dramatized, I've read the Hans Rosling books, but with the time sensitive nature of climate change a superbug would mean less resources would be guzzled as there would be less people in the machine to guzzle them.

1
mniZero•

it would likely also destroy livestock and crops, lol. any positive changes wouldn't last long enough to be worth it - plus i'd be careful about promoting this way of thinking because it could pretty easily cause people to take this thanos-esque fascist view of climate change as a legitimate viewpoint, which is really something best avoided.

2
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

Ah yes it's probably most likely a superbug would emerge from agriculture. I was mainly joking/ toying with the idea, though I do find the scenario kinda tragic-poetic like the ending of war of the worlds.

1
KingKyussI say, Oh, I say!•

Calm down, Thanos.

7
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

Hah Han Tyumi even

4
Ancient_Name•

If a superbug wipes out most of humanity quickly I'd imagine the ensuing massive nuclear contamination of the planet would be worse than what we're doing. I'm thinking of the hundreds of nuclear power plants that go critical in this kind of apocalyptic scenario.

3
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

That's true, depends on how much damage a superbug would do, but avoiding living in a nuclear wasteland would be a top priority for those left behind

1
SwissStriker•

Maybe a dumb question, but I just don't know: wouldn't a nuclear power plant be designed to shut down without critical failure if human intervention stopped?

1
Ancient_Name•

It takes something like 10-20 years to properly shutdown a nuclear plant and dispose of the spent fuel. If a plant is still active and the workers just walked away or died, the plant would go critical in a number of hours to days tops.

2
bluePachyderm:fmb:•

It is completely a human problem, life on earth adapts, even the earth itself adapts, we are a species with very narrow capabilities to survive. Saving the planet is really a euphemism for saving ourselves.

3
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

Life that survives adapts but mass extinctions are a direct result of our way of living and encroachments on their habitats.

1
busi16•

Technically we have been in a mass extinction well before humans even developed agriculture.

1
ddog27•

Mass extinctions of other species are greatly important to humanity's survival. That is why we focus on the biggest issues like climate change/deforestation/etc... Sadly, nobody is ever going to be able to mobilize global economies/superpowers under the banner of "save nature for nature's sake". Humans NEED biodiversity to maintain the way society currently functions. The best way to "save" the planet and its biodiversity is to show everyone the roles that they play in keeping our lives comfortable.

2
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

This is the reply I was hoping for. Have you seen Princess Mononoke? I'd say it carries a lot of these themes.

1
busi16•

Mass extinction is the least of our worries. Evolution speeds up after mass extinctions and organisms very quickly fill empty niche's. I've never understood the worry for mass extinction other than an empathetic reaction to cool looking animals that are endangered. Plenty of animals are adapting to human environments and biodiversity in places like concrete cities will just keep expanding.

1
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

That's entirely subjective. My point of view is that we are far too selfish in how we value other life on Earth, saying things like that's "the least of our worries" is sharing these humanity-centric views and feeling we share no responsibility. Basically one terrestrial animal is deciding the fates of countless others and forcing niches to be filled (which can't all be e.g. honeybee) by excessively depleting resources and living way beyond its means. KGATLW definitely seem critical of these kinda issues and love challenging our"humanity".

1
busi16•

I look at is, valuing some species over others. We are quick to support endangered species that fail to adapt but consider species like Rat's, Crows, White Ibis' as pests because of how well they are doing in human environments. And honeybee can't be filled? Pollinators are one of the biggest niche's out there. A lot of birds are pollinators. Besides, flowers are a rather recent evolution anyway, the earth has existed prior and flourished in those times as well. I understand everyone has different views on this, but I love discussing it.

1
hazzaheath:peoplevultures:•

Okay I totally get where you're coming from and enjoy the conversation point too! Sure lots of other pollinators, but even insect (butterflies) and bat populations are dwindling which do a lot of the leg work too. Your argument stands that nature goes through cycles and thrives, it's just that it's largely avoidable. Agree massively about your points on pests though, even classically adored animals can become pests when they thrive like deer.

1
its_summer68:vegemite:•

Superbug is the sludgiest song on Infest and damn, it’s pretty creepy too. I’m a teen who’s interested in medicine, and it’s pretty scary to know that we do have the capacity to be wiped out just because of an OP bug which can’t be treated with antibiotics.

4
bluePachyderm:fmb:•

Should'a used phages

Instead you took ages

What is the current state of bacteriophage research? Is there some kind of opposition to it? Also

​

UnnecessaryAnti-Bs

Likely killed humanity

What does this part mean?

3
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

I don’t know the answer to the first one. But I assume by “Anti-Bs” Stu is just referring to antibiotics

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bluePachyderm:fmb:•

Oh of course, well that fills my dumb questions quota for the day.

3
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

Now that I’m listening to the song I never would have know that was what he was saying! He pronounces “unnecessary” weird to make the word fit in the verse I think.

1
Luftewaffle:eyeslikethesky: King Charizard & the Phantom Menace•

My understanding is that bacteriophage research is much slower/more difficult to perform than with standard antibacterials

3
ours•

I've talked to a doctor who went to a symposium on the subject.

It's complicated selecting the right phage and filtering it properly before application. So it's interesting tech but antibiotics remain more reliable and easier to apply for now.

OP talks about developing new antibiotics but doctors are also using old antibiotics that went out of favor and for which many bacteria have no resistance or lost the resistance. Evolving resistance has a cost to the bacteria so at times it wins some and at others it loses some.

3
groobler17•

Stop eating factory farmed meat m'dudes.

3
VeryShibes•

Stop eating factory farmed meat

I would actually be willing to do this but it's still not a 100% guarantee of safety, there was an E.coli outbreak in romaine lettuce last year that killed 5 people. Not even a "superbug", I was surprised to find out that the "E" in OP's "ESKAPE" list of superbug candidates was some other species and not E.coli

1
DickCheneysUncle•

I'd be interested to know whether you think that an increase in global temperature (climate change) would affect the speed at which these new resistant bacteria are evolving? Also the way I interpreted the song was the idea that as all the ice-caps melt, old diseases frozen in the ice are released into the ocean, rapidly killing off the population. Absolutely brilliant post OP, hell enjoyed learning about this stuff!!

3
SeiriusPolaris•

This is why the love the line “it never ever gives a fuck”

There’s no reasoning with this. Once it breaks the barrier, we’re fucked. It’s bad enough that humans aren’t clean or considerate of others.

3
mandrean23•

Very interesting! I'll now think about this as I'm listening to the song haha

2
AFlockOfTySegalls•

I think of my terrible MRSA experience Everytime this song comes on.

2
0ffGrid•

Instead ya took ages

2
Cheapskate-DM•

RE: reducing use of antimicrobials; how's vinegar work out? Scientifically, I mean. Does it take care of enough basic cleaning/disinfection stuff for the average not-a-hospital home?

2
FleamonOP:mindfuzz:•

I would imagine so. It's slightly acidic due to acetic acid, and so probably works decently as a disinfectant. Other than that I don't know very much about it.

IMO, the ideal scenario would be to have an all-purpose mild cleaner that you can use for general cleaning, and a antibacterial/antiviral cleaner that you can keep stowed away on the shelf only to be used sparingly. An appropriate use of this would be the times that you or someone else in the household catches something like the flu.

1