New KTM 890 Duke R for 2020: Details revealed
bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/news-and-views/news...
bennetts.co.ukPosted Nov 5, 2019, 3:28 PM UTC
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bennetts.co.ukTakes the 790 and adds more engine and braking power along with adjustable suspension.
Braking power and suspension are among the biggest "complaints" I've seen from others and experienced myself. Should be a nice bike if it's made in Austria like the 790 was.
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A 790 owner in the wild!
I'm im love with this bike since I test rode it last year. Didn't push it so I'm wondering how lacking brakes are? Are aftermarket brakes a good options or is cost prohibitive? I'm considering getting it next year but I could wait for the 890. It will be a huge jump in power tho.
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Brakes do the job, but the initial bite is lacking.
A pad upgrade to HH Sintereds are a cheap perf mod. Several have seen performance increases after swapping to wavy Galfer rotors on top of pads, but those are ~$230 a front disc.
I plan on getting Sintered pads once the stocks wear out. Rotors will follow once stocks warp or wear out.
I've no issues with the suspension being non-adjustable, but the major issue is not being able to compensate for wear-in over time.
The two complaints I do have about it are the low RPM fueling causing stuttering and that the US model didn't come stock with LED turn signals.
All in all a fantastic bike for $10500. Would purchase again in a heartbeat.
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Great, thanks! I'll see how things look like next summer. Really looking forward to trying it out again in spring.
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Another 790 owner here. His comment is spot on. I got EBC HH sintered pads before my stock ones wore out. Near-totally eliminated the initial bite complaint.
The 890 R basically removes all potential complaints I have with my 790. But, if it's too expensive, the 790 with maybe $1k on top for pads and stuff like a tail tidy is a dream machine.
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Take a look into coober ECU if low RPM specially in range between 2nd gear 4.5/6k RPM to 3rd gear 4.5-5.5k RPM bothers you because smoothness with this upgrade is insane! I had mine installed for a test run for a good month, considering buying it permanently through the winter! If it wasn't my buddies I wouldn't give it back hahaha
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My area of concern is in the 1.75-3k range of 1st and 2nd. Basically idling in gear while in traffic. I end up feathering the clutch to smooth it out.
I have looked into an aftermarket ECU as a potential correction, but dumping that amount of money on a minor inconvenience is not at the top of my list right now.
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As a fellow '19 790 owner, I didn't find braking power lacking. They just had poor initial bite and you had to pull the lever more than you'd want. Switching out to EBC HH sintered pads solved that for me.
Lack of suspension adjustability is annoying, though. Spot on with that complaint. I'm the perfect weight for the stock setup, too. But under hard-ish braking the front dive is troubling. I don't mind the rear shock setup, though. Works fine for me.
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I have a 2018 790, idk how people can find the bracking power shitty, i've tested several time the 1290 with Brembo, and obviously its not the same feeling, but its not "that" bad
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Still holding out for that Husky 801/901... Come on KTM, let 'em share some sales!
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I thought they had a smcr/smt coming out? I guess next year. Another note is husky is going flat track racing with a vtwin! I want to know if we'll get that....
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I yet to hear any mention of a Husky variant of the 790/890 Duke, but I'd be alllll over it. I might be in the minority, but KTM styling is too busy... Ugly. 😖
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I can understand that people either love or hate the duke design there's not alot in the middle. I dont see any big difference in design between the 690 and the 701 sumo besides colors.
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Rather, I should say a 901 Vitpilen/Svartpilen. Styling would be night and day. 701 Supermoto is definitely classier looking to me, but not distinctly different from the 690 SMC.
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I didn't see anything about where it will be released, and price. Anyone know?
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Current EU 790 price is 9.999€ you can get it for 9k€ new, so with suspension + engine (100cc) + breaks I would aim for cca 12.5k€, they will probably still try to undercut competition.
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I saw an interview of a KTM Italia guy, he said 11.900€, release for march 2020, but that sound really expansive, i hope it include akra slip-on & other piece at this price...
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That’s about everything I wanted from the 790....May trade my 1290 in for this guy.
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Looks awesome! The middleweight Era of naked bikes is here!
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it's like they're trying to make the rear-end look as bad as possible; you just can't make it look clean even with aftermarket lights
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Fuck husky ktm they are arrogant cunts who couldn't care less once you are out the door.
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I'm trying real hard to avoid KTM after the shitshow of owning my 701 but goddamn, Big Four, get your shit together and start building exciting, different bikes like them!
I mean Kawasaki is going to release the ZX25r, which is looking to be a beast for a low cc category.
Wow you aren't kidding. I thought this was joke
Fingers crossed that they bring it into the US. I had an FZR400, which was an awesome bike, but waaaaay too finicky. Nowadays I have an RC390, which is fun, but the agricultural sounding engine is nothing like the revvy FZR400.
If they bring the ZX25R into the US I will probably be buying one. I've been saying for years that I want a modern (EFI) 4-cylinder little bike.
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Obviously I'm biased, but in the segment this Duke will be in, the Yamaha triples are king. Depending on where you want to go, you start with either the MT or the XSR, you drop $2k on the suspension, you drop another $1500 on exhaust and ECU tuning, you spend $2500 fully customizing the aesthetic pieces (fenders, cowls, handlebars, etc.), and for ~$15K you have a custom naked sports bike putting out 115hp that handles like a dream and has Yamaha reliability.
I'm very familiar with the options. The MT09 is like a Camaro to the 790/890's Corvette. The weight on the MT is much, much higher up so it doesn't handle as well. The integrated quickshifter on the ktm is superior to most options on the market, feeling like a manumatic more than a standard manual with a quickshifter.
I was an control rider for a Yamaha sponsored track day provider until this season. The Yamahas are finely tuned, reliable machines (I've owned 5) but are soulless/vanilla by comparison.
The CP3 motor is far from soulless/vanilla in anyway. Every motorcycle journalist who's reviewed the FZ/MT-09 has raved about Yamaha's triple especially since they've fixed ride by wire for 2017+. The suspension is garbage but like mentioned above there are many options for upgrading the front forks and rear shock. KTM probably realized they didn't get the sales for 2019 because anyone interested in a 790 would also be looking at the MT-09, Z900, or street triple and they realized the motor was lacking compared to the competition.
I have yet to see a comparative review of the two where the reviewer preferred the MT09, even after factoring in the suspension disparity. It's not JUST the engine that makes it soulless, it's the overall character of the bike.
Unquestionably the gixxers I've ridden felt more.... interesting... than the big blue. That said, it wasn't enough to get me to change allegiance from my R6's (all three). It's an indescribable feeling when one talks about the "soul" of a bike. Yamaha has always felt like soulless perfection to me. Sometimes it's nice to take an "inferior" choice because it speaks to you in ways that the "better" option can't/won't.
I’ve owned a 2017 FZ. The 790 is a better bike in every way except reliability.
I bought a 2014 FZ-09 brand new off the showroom floor in april of '14. I put 22,000 miles on it all over Colorado and sold it last year to buy a KTM 690 Enduro R. Even in dirt trim, the 690 is absolutely 100% waaaay more fun in literally every scenario. It honestly did make my FZ-09 feel soulless and vanilla in comparison. I wholly agree with u/CG_ops here. The Yamahas are fantastic bikes and great for a lot of people. They're very well tuned and the CP3 motor is a peach. But KTMs just make you squeal with joy.
It's like a PS4 vs a Nintendo Switch. The PS4 is way better on a spec sheet. Everything about it is higher quality. But the switch is just plain fun.
I'm pretty sure KTM hit a record number of sales this year, though. Regardless, I went through that exact process with the 790, MT-09, and Striple. Didn't even look at the Z900, though.
The power is lacking only mildly. It's very, very nearly as quick as a striple r in 0-60 and 0-100. I found the electronics and display clearly superior to the yammy, and the quickshifter was a massive plus. The 790 is also lighter, sharper handling, and is more compact and handles it's weight better.
I ended up going with the 790 over both. It's just a nicer bike than the MT-09, in my opinion. The striple is awesome, but I liked the supermotard riding position of the 790/MT more than the striple rider position.
Now, wth the 890 R, if it's anything like the 790, I think it's not even close. It eliminates the power disparity; and it brings fully adjustable suspension and better braking, which are really the only weak spots in the 790. Price is the only reason I would possibly go for an MT-09 over the 890 R.
Lacking? That's what I thought as well until I watched them head to head and the 790 gapped the mt09.
Fair enough. I just can't bring myself to pay double for a European bike with such a poor reliability history as KTM/Husqvarna (although I pretty desperately want a Husky 2-stroke enduro). I suppose the quickshifter would be more important to me if I actually rode on tracks.
I've been on my Super Adventure for over 3 years now and have 40k miles with only trivial issues that didn't affect rideability at all. This bike is far-and-away the best damn bike I have ever owned, period.
And if you haven't ever used a quickshifter, I feel sorry for you. It's not just a track only thing, it's extremely handy on and off road.
Perhaps in the past... im riding a dike 690 and the thing just works, it’s nimble and shifts side to side just by thinking about it, and in the malibu hills here in Cali, i can stay in 2nd or 3rd and rev all day climbing through switchbacks without any disruption in power, or heating issues.
KTM has gotten their game together, seeing an 890 R on the horizon made my toes curl. \o/
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more like indian bike lel
Words taken from my mouth, if any body would spend 1 season on each MT09/790, there is no way you pick one over another and I won't even comment which one would prevail because we both know which.
Why would you drop $15k into an MT09 when you could get a Tuono or an S1000R for that money?
And I say this as a guy who has an MT09. I put a quickshifter and LED lights on mine and I'm still like, "hmm.. I should have just gotten a fancier bike."
Because the Yamaha doesn't sit in the shop like its Italian and German counterparts and its preventative maintenance is cheaper. I say that as a guy who's had 4 BMWs and an Italian Husqvarna. Plus, I'm heavy enough that no matter how nice the stock suspension is on a bike, it's going to need new springs to behave properly, and I'll always want a new exhaust. So really it's why spend 15k on a Yamaha when I can spend 20k on a comparable Euro bike that costs a fuck ton more to operate.
Because in 5 years you will have spent 30k on the euro or 17500 on the yammy
Obviously, I'm also biased, but I strongly disagree. I rode both the MT-09 and the 790. I found the 790 to be a better bike that had a better display and electronics. It's lighter and is a sharper handling machine. The up+down quickshifter works great. Seat is comfy, too.
You'll spend roughly the same on the aesthetic pieces like mirrors, tail tidy, frame sliders. You'll also spend the same on a fully-adjustable suspension setup for either bike. To be honest, I don't think the bikes in this class need a racing exhaust system and ECU tune. At that cost, it's better to have moved up to the MT-10. At most, I'd throw a slip-on, on.
Lastly, fwiw, I've had zero problems with the bike so far. Plus, it's got so much personality. Again, it's only anecdotal, but the only reason I would've gone for the MT-09 was the exhaust, but the duke still has a good bark to it, stock.
I haven't ridden a bike manufactured after 2004 that didn't want an ECU flash. The way the FI is tuned these days for emissions makes low-throttle and roll-off super shitty. At least that's been my experience. Plus, the Duke costs 2k more than the MT09, which completely offsets the suspension and flash, which both bikes will need.
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Won't disagee about "wanting" an ECU flash. Low throttle is pretty bad these days, but roll-off hasn't been a problem for me. As for price difference, I think the electronics on the KTM make it worth it. They are superior, for sure. It's a pleasure to ride and use them.
You can't really go wrong with either bike, though. But, when you look at your list of mods, they're nearly the price of the initial bike. Extensive mods like that make comparisons less about the stock bikes and more about the mods chosen. (e.g. Rider A chose an Andreani front cartridge kit + matris steering damper but Rider B went for Ohlins NIX 30 front and external reservoir rear)
Also biased but I think the Z900 doesn't get enough attention. It's more powerful and about 5k cheaper. Doesn't have as many bells and whistles though but it's a beast that easily keeps up with the z1000's. It's extremely comfortable too, I rode mine 13 hours straight one day and reliability has not been a problem.
I had a Z800 before my Tuono and while it was a lovely bike, after riding a European bike with a different engine layout, the inline-4 Japanese bikes feel pretty souless. A buddy of mine just bought a 2013 Hypermotard SP over a 2017 MT-09 for that same exact reason. The jap bikes are undoubtedly the more practical/smarter buy, but imo they don't invoke the same emotions as European bikes.
after getting off a Tuono everything feels vanilla
But then again you buy 790 with all the electronics that no other bike has, with the best quick shifter currently available on the market for road use. Throwing 1500€ for suspension and maybe 500€ for aesthetics, and you have a bike for 11k€ that no one else can beat in that range not even MT09 SP, not in consumption not in comfort or build quality. Let's be real and honest right here for a moment, I did own MT07 2016, MT09 2018 and 790 duke 2019... If you throw another 600€ for coober ECU, you can kiss their ass goodbye. As much as I love Yamaha, hands down KTM beats every aspect of them three. If it wasn't sitting position making my kneese suffer I would never knew how good 790 is and no bias, hands down KTM is a supreme bike compared to Yamaha specially in build quality.
I had a Superduke 990. Fitted with everything single piece of carbon fiber from the Power Parts catalogue. Such a cool and fun bike, very light too. But man all the problems I had with it. Yours sound way worse, but mine was not very good either.
It's probably 8 years since I owned it, but here's a small list of problems:
"starter torque converter gearing" faulty. Dimensions too small, so the teeth on the sprockets would rip. KTM came out with a kit that fixed it. NOT on warranty, even though it was a bad design from the factory.
Faulty water pump seal. Oil suddenly had water in it. Complete rebuild. New part #'s as far as I know, so you know, faulty design from factory
Clutch slave cylinder leaked. No fix from KTM. Had to buy "Oberon" parts as suggested by KTM forum members. Great part, but I don't think it should be my problem.
WORST of all: the carbon fiber fuel tank cracked while driving. Both sides cracked, pouring gasoline down over the hot engine. Lucky I didn't burn and die. The tank was very expensive, I think it was about $2500 USD. The Danish KTM dealer (only one back then) would hear nothing about replacing it, because I had bought the bike used. So they didn't know the age of the fuel tank. I understand that, but they didn't even want to see the bike or figure out why the tank had cracked.
Back then you couldn't contact KTM in any other way than snail mail. So I sent a letter with pictures and over a month went by before they contacted me. They wanted to old carbon fiber tank, and sent me a new plastic tank.
Btw. the new plastic tank expanded and became a bit longer than the original form. Everyone had that problem...
On the other hand I owned a KTM 990 for 60k miles and only had to rebuild the water pump and swap the slave cylinder.
The tanks expending are a known issue and the blame is on Acerbis which also had the same issue on Ducati's bikes.
The blame is on whoevers name is written on the $2000 fuel tank they sold.
It was a KTM power part. Not sure who manufactured it.
Yeah I agree. Lots of people have ridden a long ways on those bikes/engines.
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That sucks about your 701. I don't have any experience of the KTM road models, but my 530 has done almost 30k km on the road as a supermoto and it has been rock solid.
What was your issue with the 701? I owned the duke 390 and I was unimpressed.
Click the link in my OP
Oof, sorry to hear that CG. My '15 690 E/R has over 15,000 miles on it now with the only problem being that the fan shroud vibrated and wore a hole in the rad. Couple washers fixed that up.
KTM/Husky really do make some of the most exciting bikes I've ever ridden though. (My last bike was an FZ-09)
I just read your post on the 701. Thats shitty. Sorry man.
Just ditch the big four and go triumph ;)
I’m interested in that new 765. Seems like a good setup if they’re using it in moto2
I've never ridden any of their triples, but if I went the sport bike route triumph is definitely where I'd put my money.
Their bikes are so smooth and feel so premium. I am so glad I got a triumph as my first bike