Source
r/IncelExit•
Shadowofintent213

A Conversation about BAD Advice: From a guy who was bad at dating

I feel a lot of guys get hung up on some truly bad advice that is out there. I think it would be helpful to have a constructive conversation about bad advice. In hopes of getting more dudes headed in the right direction. I am going to start with some of the worst advice (IMO) I have seen out there.

Looks do not matter: I want every one to take a deep breath, and remain calm and civil, because this one is BAD.

WHY this is BAD ADVICE: Looks do matter, but not in the way it is commonly spoken about online. PRESENTATION MATTERS: This has nothing to do with height, build, facial geometry, skin color, hair style or wardrobe. Presentation is all about your posture, making eye contact when speaking, making sure your cloths fit you right, and making sure cloths are clean and wrinkle free. No, this dose not mean go nuts and buy new cloths. This means make what you have look the best you can. This the wax on the sports car, garnish on the cocktail, the frosting on the cake. You make your goodness look the best you can, all the time.

Just have confidence bro. Yeah that thing you have no confidence in, just be confident about it bro.

WHY this is BAD ADVICE: Unless your are the lion from Wizard of OZ you are not going to be handed confidence. YOU BUILD Confidence: The reason you will hear a lot of people suggesting, that you join clubs, try new hobbies, and do new things, is that these activities build up your confidence up. Bonus points if you go outside your comfort zone. Minor caveat being, do not just try a new hobby once, do not like it and quit. Keep trying new hobbies and experiences. Make it a habit, maybe something you do once a month. Especially if you are more introverted, and no this will not turn you into a charismatic stallion all in one go, but you will build your confidence over time. So when the time comes to just be confident you will be able to.

Try being friends first: Hey you there ! struggling to find a meaningful intimate relationship ? Start a platonic relationship instead ! That way you can never achieve the relationship you really want and, have it dangled in front of you instead. Whats that ? you are now at all time low of hopeless and despair, well that means you are a bad friend.

WHY this us BAD ADVICE: Dudes please do not do this to yourself. When you meet a women and become casual acquainted stop and decide if this is someone you may want a romantic relationship. Unsure if you want this to be romantic partner, STOP stay at casually acquainted. Romantically interested? Now ask yourself is this someone you can see a real relationship with? if so proceed accordingly. Just want to be just friends, really,...... just friends,...... are you sure okay. WOMEN FRIENDS ARE GREAT**!** A good gal friend can be your Coach Belichick to your Tom Brady , a honest opinion on how you present to the opposite sex is a very valuable thing to have. Yes you will hear " I know so and so and they meet as friends and it grew into a relationship, and they been married 10 years and have two children and a puppy. This can happen but its not the norm, outside of the movies

Posted Dec 4, 2019, 5:28 AM UTC

2342
hanzosrightnippleBASED MODCEL•

I super agree on the confidence bit actually. I was always really insecure and shy until I worked retail for a good few years, and while I'm still a soft kitten that'll cry if someone yells at me, I feel a lot more confident in my ability to meet and talk to people I dont know. My conflict resolution skills also went up a lot, but that's a necessary skill in customer service. My old therapist told me "try something new every week, even if its miniscule, and report back to me each week with what you did especially if its something that gave you anxiety" and now I'm often itching to try new things (especially food!) and change it up all the time (particularly with media, my clothing, and decor). Didn't solve all my problems by a long shot, but I like to think I'm more interesting than I was five years ago.

9
w83508•

I saw various shy guys come out of their shell after working service jobs where they had to interact with tons of people, especially female-coworkers. Recommended it a few times to incels.

7
TriborgPierot94•

I did retail for 6 years and it didn't do shit. What's your recommendation?

2
w83508•

Dunno. It was aimed at guys who had little experience interacting with unrelated women and had a hard time even talking with them. If you weren't that way stands to reason it didn't help. If you were...find female flatmates maybe?

1
nateperson420•

I don't know about that when i worked in a restaurant it just made me feel worse.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

1
w83508•

When I gave that advice to incels it was aimed at guys who had little experience interacting with unrelated women and had a hard time even talking with them.

Why did it make you feel worse?

1
nateperson420•

Well it because i was treated like a joke by everyone men and women.

1
Tsarina702•

My only issue with the first one is that I've realistically never seen anyone say that looks don't matter at all.

6
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

I wont say where but I have seen enough to find it annoying and un-helpful

6
Tsarina702•

Oh... On this sub? Or another one? You don't have to point me directly where, but I'd like to know if I need to keep a closer eye out for that, because you're right, that's an extreme and unhelpful view of things.

1
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

Not on this subs. I have seen that advice on other subs, and in real life TBH I was on the very first incel forum that Alana started way back in the early 00’ before things got crazy, so I have seen the god the bad and the ugly

7
bengringo2BASED MODCEL•

Thats why we are here. A realistic approach with subscribing to some pill.

Looks matter but are not everything and depending on who you want to date, not even close to a deal breaker. Only way my fugly

Fuck philosophical pills. When faced with two extremes reality most often sits in the middle.

10
Tsarina702•

That's really cool

3
dannymason•

I was on the very first incel forum that Alana started way back in the early 00’ before things got crazy

Whoa.

2
w83508•

Thankfully I've seen it only once on this sub. But it is out there.

3
I_actually_prefer_•

Not sure if this is disingenuous or not, but you see it everywhere. “It’s not your looks dude, but your awful personality.”

2
Tsarina702•

That does not mean that looks aren't a factor

3
concrete_dandelionPost-Sexual Velociraptor•

Well if someone has an awful personality their looks really don't matter because the awfulness is driving anyone away even if they're extremely handsome. This doesn't mean looks don't matter, it just means before the way said dude looks becomes important he first needs to improve his personality. It's like if I put a perfect makeup and my face looks really good but I neither showered nor washed my hair, brushed my teeth or changed my clothes and I am just gross and smell like a wastebin in summer my looks don't matter because the smell drives everyone away. But if I have decent hygiene my looks will improve my chances with many people. But they're neither a guarantee, nor do they work with everyone. There are people to whom looks don't matter. I am one of them. Looking good is a nics extra for me, but not looking good isn't a dealbraker. An awful personality is a dealbraker. But I am totally aware that this is my personal perspective and most people have a different opinion on this matter than me. But hey if you're truly ugly (which is really rare) you're not lost, because there are other ugly people and there are people who don't care. Your chances are lower but not zero.

1
Spigot_AT4•

You can't seriously think height, facial geometry, hairstyle etc. doesn't matter. I agree that presentation matters too and that's where the focus should be when giving advice, but I also don't see the point in denying reality. Not to mention that hairstyle and wardrobe could be considered to fall under 'presentation'.

3
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

My point here is presenting what ever you ha r the best you can. Your looks are fixed they are a given for the most part, so my advice is to make what you have look the best you can

9
Daedry•

This also goes hand in hand with your "build confidence" advice

Looking your best will impact how you see yourself which will in turn increase your confidence

2
I_actually_prefer_•

Also, what gets shoved under the rug is race and ethnicity being barriers. These are part of looks and being born in the “wrong”race and ethnicity severely limits your potential partner options

2
[deleted]•

It’s fucked that racism and white supremacy has infected so many people. But every time someone refuses to date you because of your ethnicity, you’re protected from a really fucked up experience. People who can’t accept that people who aren’t white are just as valuable and attractive are fucked in the head.

9
I_actually_prefer_•

It’s worse when it’s people of your own rac.

3
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

Dude, people being racist is not your problem. Fuck them for being racist. I am African American, and I grew up in the suburbs. So yeah I get it.

4
I_actually_prefer_•

Well, it is when it’s people of my own race doing it to me.

2
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

Well double fuck them for that. You still do not own other people’s hot garbage hang ups.

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
stronkzer•

Don't forget that most of the ethnic incels are outcasts between their own community. Tyrones,Changs and Javiers are a thing

0
TriborgPierot94•

This is actually the most useful advice this sub has ever posted. There's no bullshit attached to it it's just laid out and also shows how pathetic the versions of this advice everyone else seems to post.

Congrats!

3
w83508•

Great post. I hope most of us here aren't giving the shitty advice but it's good to say it anyway. And hopefully might help some of our bros reframe it in their heads when they do hear it.

2
FaraunLoveShady•

Looks do not matter: I want every one to take a deep breath, and remain calm and civil, because this one is BAD.

WHY this is BAD ADVICE: Looks do matter, but not in the way it is commonly spoken about online. PRESENTATION MATTERS: This has nothing to do with height, build, facial geometry, skin color, hair style or wardrobe. Presentation is all about your posture, making eye contact when speaking, making sure your cloths fit you right, and making sure cloths are clean and wrinkle free. No, this dose not mean go nuts and buy new cloths. This means make what you have look the best you can. This the wax on the sports car, garnish on the cocktail, the frosting on the cake. You make your goodness look the best you can, all the time.

​

Thanks for saying this dude, absolutely, looks have a good amount of importance. Also you can only make a first appereance once,.

Try being friends first: Hey you there ! struggling to find a meaningful intimate relationship ? Start a platonic relationship instead ! That way you can never achieve the relationship you really want and, have it dangled in front of you instead. Whats that ? you are now at all time low of hopeless and despair, well that means you are a bad friend.

Exactly, try befriending first only works for very good-looking dudes, usually not even average-looking men can befriend women so easily.

2
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

Being friends “almost “ never works. What often is happening is the so called “friends” have something preventing a relationship for a time, and soon as that’s over the relationship forms.

1
jfbegin•

I completely disagree that people's feelings about each other are static, you can definitely fall for a friend and vice versa. Whenever I've read anecdotes about long time friends becoming a couple, the "thing" preventing a relationship has been mutual feelings which is the case for most romantic relationships. I also know being friends first works because I've done it.

3
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

I am glad that it has worked for you. Yes I agree feeling do not stay static in any relationship. I still say that is a bad strategy for dating. The pitfalls are numerous. Let’s be friends is often used by women as code for, I really don’t want anything to do with you, but will tolerate you on occasion. You also have situations where the guy becomes emotional support, financial support, tech support or whatever, and not really have any support in return. The biggest problem I have with this is this approach can blind a guy to women who are actually romantically interested in him.

I would like to stress that I am really glad that things worked out well for you, That’s really something special I wish you both everlasting happiness together

1
jfbegin•

I've found it pretty easy to befriend women, or about as easy as me, and I'm not very good looking. The same rules as becoming friends with a guy apply.

1
FaraunLoveShady•

Me too, but it's not that easy for most guys who have problems dating.

1
goawayeli•

i worry i come off as a “looks don’t matter!” person in here sometimes, when what i’m really trying to communicate is that a worldview where looks do not matter to you personally at all when assessing the value of a person is possible through dedicated work on it. if that is of no interest to some that’s fine, and offering as many potential paths forward and out of this mindset as possible can only be good. looks DO matter if you operate within the established societal expectations of looks and value attached to that. but because it is constructed, you have the freedom to construct meaning that is alternate to that to your betterment. if you can’t assimilate into a value system that is biased against you and thus you receive poor treatment as a result, you can find or create something else. not to be like we live in a society, but seriously. i like that incels can have a sort of rebellious streak, and i don’t want to encourage them to force an unnatural way of existence upon themselves just to “look good” according to a value system that’s bullshit anyway.

0
Shadowofintent213OPGiveiths of Thy Advice•

Presentation is not a radical new way do things, you all ready have one. This is the fine tuning of it, and you don’t do it for “them” fuck “them” yuh are doing this fine tuning for you.

1
goawayeli•

right and that’s not what i’m saying lmao. i’m saying you can leave lookism behind in your personal philosophy with some effort. your looks can be irrelevant to you even as you maintain and take care of your body.

3