Nobody talks about the first Indochina war.
Posted Dec 13, 2019, 8:15 AM UTC
1.1K96
France is fucking assraped nonstop in this sub
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Hmm yes let’s see all the memes about France today:
-surrender memes
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Don’t forget
-memes about surrender memes
As well as
- memes about memes about surrender memes
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France also defeated Vietnam in a war, so it compensates
America fought Vietnam only once and lost
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does it really count when the Qing-Vietnamese forces were still using the Guangdao and dadaos when the french had artillery guns and breech-loading guns
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Let's not act like Americans didn't have a massive technological advantage in their Vietnam War
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Well would you rather use a knife in a fucking gunfight or use an outdated SAM against a fighter jet ? Also the government is quite corrupt at the time. We were pretty much like the chinese in the Opium war
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No the hell it doesn’t. There’s a large difference between bolt action rifles with bayonets and sub machine guns.
1†
While we’re here can we also admit that the idea that the Vietnamese forces were “just a bunch of farmers” is a myth?
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Right. They were highly trained professional soldiers with extremely modern weapons for the time. It’s the same way people call the Americans angry farmers in the American Revolutionary War when they were in fact a well trained uniformed army as well.
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The NVA were decently trained but not quite to the level you’re suggesting. Like any army they improved as things went on. Dien Bien Phu was almost as big a disaster for the VM as it was for the French considering that they used almost exclusively human wave attacks
Master improvisers though
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Acccording to what I, an Vietnamese learn, the human wave was more or less a diversion so others can dig a tunnel toward their HQ. It just so happens that the diversion is so effective that we won with both methods
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It very nearly destroyed Giap's army. The Viet Minh just couldn't sustain those kinds of losses.
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The Viet Minh were a U.S. trained force, ironically. That said the U.S. did receive a lot of troubles from locals since, you know, we were needlessly invading their land. So no, the main forces in the Vietnam war were not farmers, but the farmers certainly didn't make things easy.
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They actually were farmers, but nothing can stop them hanging out late and clapping some murica cheeks. (Sometimes theirs cheeks got clapped too)
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They weren't. They were trained militia, some of them being soldiers of north vietnam with advanced equipment.
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Why one can't be both farmer and militia?
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While he may have been a farmer once, once you get drawn into the militia you won't be able to leave until the war is over I'm pretty sure.
To put it differently, it does not matter if it was a farmer, a business owner or whatever other job. It was a trained militia or also called soldier.
Edit: It'd be like calling the Swiss army, which is made up of a militia system, "Just some bankers".
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I mean the frensh losing isnt something new...
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The French had it much harder in Vietnam than the Americans due to the fact they didnt have helicopters yet.
French troops had to walk for months across the jungle and thus were often ambushed by the Viets. Also the wounded had a much higher mortality rate as they had to survive the walk back across the jungle for weeks before seeing a hospital.
Meanwhile Americans had fancy helicopters that could quickly teleport their troops to any place they wanted and that could bring their wounded to a hospital within two hours.
9
Also, France didn't have an habit of burning down entire villages.
We are civilized people.
Edit : *high command didn't order to burn down the villages.
After further research, it seems the French communist party - a pacifist party - asked its militants to join the French army in 1948 to stop the village massacres.
-2†
Your record in Algeria has determined that that is a lie.
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Well, AFAIK the french did burn many villages, cut some heads off and took photo as trophy.
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France had JUST been devastated in WW2. They had no economy, no manpower, nothing. The US was in its peak of power during the Vietnam War and still lost the war.
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France actually lost on the battlefield which is something the US didn’t do
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You can still find tons of french architecture around Hanoi and stuff.
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The USA never lost a battle to North Vietnam...
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Soviet casualties in the Vietnam war: <100
North Vietnamese casualties: ~1 mil
US casualties: 60,000
South Vietnamese casualties: 450k-750k
In terms of casualties in a proxy war, USA lost, even though Soviet and Chinese troops only participated as instructors and their ally proxy lost as much men as the enemy. In terms of attrition, USA lost.
And in terms of strategic win/loss, USA failed to achieve any of its goals and retreated back home, with South Vietnam eventually capitulating.
You don't have to lose a battle to lose a war.
*-casualties referring to only deaths, not injuries
9
Well that depends if you count the Paris Peace accords the end. The goal was to preserve the independence of South Vietnam and if was expected that the Paris Peace accords would so just that. However the North just invaded anyway after the U.S left.
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Vietnam didnt beat america. America beat America
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Putain de cancre.
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If the USA burned it to the ground there would be no forest for the us to lose to
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The US very much had a reason. The Viet Cong were attacking America’s ally.
-2†
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The ally was South Vietnam. The Viet Cong attacked them first.
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The foundation of SVN was an attempt to prevent VN unification and stop the spreading of Viet Minh
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any chance you want to post a meme about the death count for this war?
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Việt Nam Vô Địch
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Yes, we had a First Indochina war, but what about Second Indochina war?
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It's called The Vietnam War
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it's funny cause its true !
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China loses multiple times, Mongolian empire loses multiple times, japanise empire loses multiple times?
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Technically we didn’t lose
1†
Switch France to China and it’d be 10xs more accurate
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Didn't the Chinese also tried to invade Vietnam?
They succeed sometimes.
It's more like Vietnam was annexed by china for over a millennium. It gained full independence in 938 AD after numerous rebellions throughout the centuries
The china invade again and failed again like 4 times.