Seattle transit ridership pauses after years of rapid growth
seattletransitblog.com/2019/12/16/seattle-tra...
seattletransitblog.comPosted Dec 16, 2019, 4:57 PM UTC
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seattletransitblog.comA good analysis by Dan Ryan. An important factor, not publicly reported, is the growth in private transit as Amazon, Microsoft and now Expedia soak up affluent "choice" riders whose public bus options are indirect or uncomfortable.
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uncomfortable.
You mean like folks are opting out of transit that requires they transfer downtown or sit next to crazy folks?
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It was the finest day when I was on a bus up on Pill Hill and a lady wearing a hospital gown and boots tried running on to the bus. The bus driver immediately started telling her she couldn’t come on dressed like that while a nearby nurse from outside the bus grabbed on to her and tried to get her off the stairs leading on to the bus. She held on to the rails steadfastly, squatted down, and took the biggest shit i’ve seen come out of a human.
Everyone exited the bus and I was half an hour late for work.
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Seattle has more inoffensive riders than other transit providers I’ve used in large cities. This fantasy I keep hearing about sitting next to a meth junkie is more applicable to mid-size American towns than it is here.
The same can’t be said about Metro’s decision to move downtown transfers to surface streets. I believe that was actively counterproductive and has contributed to avoiding certain routes or taking alternatives, personally-speaking. Transit riders here tend to be well-behaved. The creeps that stalk bus stops for shakedowns on a captive audience are decidedly not.
Of course people will have anecdotes about fights and blades, but as a prolific transit rider I’ve never witnessed any hostile behavior on a bus or train. I know it happens. It happens everywhere in American mass transit. Perhaps I am just not using risky routes, or maybe it is less prevalent than people think.
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but as a prolific transit rider I’ve never witnessed any hostile behavior on a bus or train.
I'll back you up on your experience; it mirrors my own. I do not drive; buses are my main mode of transportation, with my feet coming in second. (Where I live is not served by light rail so it ranks fourth, after my electric scooter.)
I have not been party to any hostile behavior on a bus or train, either. Yes, there are annoying people. Last week, every day seemed to be "Sit Right Next To u/oowm And Hold A Business Meeting On A Mobile Phone" Day. Yesterday, someone was calmly discussing his trials with Harborview with himself and on the way out the door turned to me and asked "are you coming? Guess not, see you later" and left.
So, yes, bigger problems do happen and I do know one person who has been around when one happened, but there's a reason why incidents like these make the news: because it's unusual when held up next to the millions of trips that happen every year without incident. Nobody remembers the usual trips, the ones that went like they should, because they're the norm not the exception.
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lol I am glad it is just a fantasy, for you.
Most other people that use downtown busses just are not on that page of the hymnal. For me, the two common cases are crazed yelling by people sitting next to me, and the smell.
The smell is from that guy. It is not every day, but often enough, and you can see all the people open the windows in descending order of how aggressive their passive aggression really is.
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Seattle has more inoffensive riders than other transit providers I’ve used in large cities. This fantasy I keep hearing about sitting next to a meth junkie is more applicable to mid-size American towns than it is here.The same can’t be said about Metro’s decision to move downtown transfers to surface streets. I believe that was actively counterproductive and has contributed to avoiding certain routes or taking alternatives, personally-speaking. Transit riders here tend to be well-behaved. The creeps that stalk bus stops for shakedowns on a captive audience are decidedly not.Of course people will have anecdotes about fights and blades, but as a prolific transit rider I’ve never witnessed any hostile behavior on a bus or train. I know it happens. It happens everywhere in American mass transit. Perhaps I am just not using risky routes, or maybe it is less prevalent than people think.
Agreed, not seeing anything out of the ordinary at least once is quite the feat. Even my old commute on the 271 route that didn't go downtown would feature the occasional crazy/insanely smelly person.
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Seattleites are so fucking sheltered and pampered and easily offended. Riding the bus in Seattle is so much nicer than busses in many other cities.
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Preach! Even compared to cities with "good" transit like Chicago or NYC the bus system here is light years better
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For being such a self described “prolific transit rider”, it’s hard for me to take you seriously when you acknowledge that there are anecdotes and “fantasies” about meth zombies, fights, and blades but say you’ve never witnessed any hostile behavior on a bus or train. If you ride more than most (being as prolific as you say) than you are either lying, or are woefully ignorant of your surroundings because crazy shit happens literally every single day. The last time I witnessed anything hostile, was as a pedestrian in Ballard. A big meth was screaming at an elderly lady as she walked by, then stood in front of her so she couldn’t pass. That was about a year ago. Does it happen around me daily? No. Does it happen daily elsewhere at random times and random places in the City of Seattle? Yes.
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I don’t know why I bother with this subreddit any longer, you trolls are all looking for a fight. You especially. I see you starting shit in every thread. It’s exhausting.
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I bus every work day. My commute has changed over the past few years, but the last two its been West Seattle to Wells Fargo Center on 3rd.
While I have noticed some drug users, some sketchy people, homeless, and some obviously high people. By far the vast majority of people are just like me, commuters trying to get through their day.
The only aggressive action ever taken to me on a bus, was some dude spitting on me for holding my boyfriends hand while seated.
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More like more comfortable seats than next to crazy folks.
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The aristocrats can’t handle riding public transit with the poors? What a bunch of thin skinned children. Seattle is so sheltered and sensitive.
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That’s a really good point, it will be interesting to see the numbers. Just looking at size and frequency of company buses running in Capitol Hill for example, it seems that could be significant. Too bad Microsoft shuttles are empty on their westbound trip and amazon buses are empty on their eastbound trips. It will be better if all of the investments for privates shuttles will go to find public transit.
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Microsoft already puts in a lot of money towards local public transit. Its policy on commuter shuttle routes is that its privately-operated routes should not duplicate transit service, with Capitol Hill being the exception because the 545 is always crush-loaded.
A not-well-known example: For a long time, Microsoft directly funded four bus routes (two in Seattle and two on the Eastside) that anyone could ride. The two commute routes from Seattle have been discontinued but the 249 and 269 on the Eastside continue, for now.
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It will be better if all of the investments for privates shuttles will go to find public transit.
But then the people currently taking the private shuttles might just drive solo instead.
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Agree, it should provide similar quality of service in term of routes and frequency to work.
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Point one, if it's just going to duplicate what already exists, why reinvent the wheel?
Point two, the government isn't going to be able to target service as efficiently as the corporation can. And if they did, you'd have Sawant bitching about how Metro was being used to serve Amazon's interest.
Point three, as was also said here, Microsoft employees are somewhat less likely to assault someone or take a shit on the van.
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A lot of public busses are empty on return routes too. The commute is not equal in both directions
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Not on the routes along 520
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I like cats.
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I wish they would just integrate this system with the public bus, for public benefit, but what can you do? Like, think about it like this: if facebook, amazon, and google are all running separate buses from the same destinations to/from SLU, isn't that really inefficient?
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Two things:
1). The primary driver in the flattening of ridership growth is buses moving out of the DSTT prior to Link service expanding. It makes those routes slower and the DSTT less usable for casual trips - you used to be able to grab something in the DSTT every couple of minutes - now Link frequency is 10 minutes at midday. That changes when Link expansions open and frequency in the tunnel goes up.
2). Transit continues to struggle to pick up off peak ridership due to Uber/Lyft. It remains to be seen if Link expansion and Uber/Lyft moving towards a for-profit business model will change that.
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Buses plateaued because there's a finite amount of people willing to take a mode of transportation that is less comfortable than a car, takes at least twice as long, and has a not zero chance of witnessing serious crazy along the way.
It also doesn't help that removing the viaduct seriously fucked transit in and out of West Seattle in the last year causing a lot of people to go back to cars. Having the viaduct down is much better but contingencies were not made as they should have been and then SDOT threw in a boondoggle road repaving that has taken 10x longer than it should right on the largest route in West Seattle fucking it further.
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I'm in West Seattle and work in SLU. The C line gets me to/from my office waaaaaaaay faster than driving myself because of the dedicated bus lanes on the bridge & on 99. I should point out that I live right off the junction so from my front door to the bus is maybe a 5-10 minute walk.
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It's definitely getting better, but it was really bad while the Avalon/35th construction was at its peak and Alaska was only 1 lane especially those days where it was taking 1+ hours just to get through the stretch of 1st Ave. A lot of people stopped taking the bus at that point because it was absurd and haven't switched back. Better for me since I get a seat more often now when heading home.
And the 99 bus lane doesn't do jack shit for anyone. It's 1/2 mile long and makes cars merge out of it and then back in a half mile later backing up traffic from 99 onto the bridge causing the buses to ultimately go slower. There's was a 2 week period after Alaska opened and before that pointless bus lane was put in where traffic flowed freely for everyone and didn't back up onto the bridge during that time.
Once Columbia Ave opens up to bus traffic and they switch the C onto Alaska, it will move even faster at which point the bus will rival a car - a couple times a month my wife will drive me to downtown when she's going that direction and it's definitely faster in the car since we don't meander through West Seattle - but I imagine going all the way to SLU probably makes it about equal as the bus catches up to the car through the rest of downtown.
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Walking has increased as downtown housing and jobs increases. And I’m not sure why anyone would expect transit to increase since there isn’t really anything that has changed to encourage that. The Link parking has reached capacity and not much new housing is being built that is walkable to the Link.
I’m sure it will go up on two years when Northgate finally opens. Until then this doesn’t seem surprising.
Agreed. I know around a dozen people who work at Amazon. Half of them moved to SLU in the past 2 years and walk to work now. The apartment boom in SLU probably ate into transit, but in a good way.
Park and rides make up a tiny percentage of transit ridership. Most of the transit growth came from improved service and added housing.
The primary driver in the flattening of ridership growth is buses moving out of the DSTT prior to Link service expanding. It makes those routes slower and the DSTT less usable for casual trips - you used to be able to grab something in the DSTT every couple of minutes - now Link frequency is 10 minutes at midday. Major service degradation of really common trip pairs (ID to Westlake, etc.)
That changes when Link expansions open and frequency in the tunnel goes up.
I don’t know. Were people really using the tunnel a lot and now not using 3rd? It was expensive for casual users and having to go all the way down and then back up didn’t save much time. I’d agree if this happened during the no fare zone days but nowadays I just don’t see many people using the 4 stops in the tunnel that way.
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