PVDA: “Vervuilende multinationals krijgen miljoenen subsidies uit Vlaams klimaatfonds”
hln.be/nieuws/binnenland/pvda-vervuilende-mul...
hln.bePosted Dec 20, 2019, 3:53 PM UTC
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hln.bePeople should realize how spreading healthy scepticism of the Anuna and Gretas of this world is basically enabling these cynical policies. Corporations and politicians only need a little bit of confusion in the public opinion to get a realpolitik free pass to do whatever they want. One Dedecker quip can counter millions protesting. Greenwash a bit, blabla personal responsability and good to go. Of course I think it's crazy to follow a bunch of 16 year olds trying to exploit our cavemen fear impulses with doom and gloom. But whereas the migrant panic is provable nonsense (not that anyone would listen.. Such is the power of the amygdala ) , the climate panic has a shitload of science behind it... And if it takes panic (and amygdalas) to act on it... I don't really see another way..
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course I think it's crazy to follow a bunch of 16 year olds trying to exploit our cavemen fear impulses with doom and gloom.
These 16 year old never came out shouting they have the answer.
They came out with the very reasonable, and rational demand that our government should start listening to the scientists who have expertise on this.
But the media narrative did not paint it like this, and the anti climate people attacked them over this.
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The 2016 migrant panic was nonsense, but the mass migration of climate refugees won't be.
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The only thing a mass migration of climate refugees will do is push Europe into the arms of ecofascism.
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You sir are entirely right.
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It would be great if we stopped looking at these topics from a purely Belgian perspective, and try to kill of our industry.
We need solid European measures that impact foreign import just as hard for equivalent amounts of pollution.
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Its funny though that when European measures are taken that Zuhal Demir explicitly states that she wont follow them...
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What a flemish minister don't want scare away business in the Antwerp harbour ?!
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We can also shun these companies and have them move to china where they just a built this thing, that'll save the environment.
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What is ETS?
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It's an idiotic system that allows Belgium to buy clean air in Hungary to satisfy its pollution norms.
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It's not that idiotic, basically a fine for countries doing poorly and subsidies for countries doing well.
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First it's not a "fine" for our short-sighted politicians which can barely see further then the next election. They have too pay less now, so for them it's a fantastic gift which promotes doing nothing. Nevertheless that the "real" problem will show it's head in the next legislatures but that is for after the next election. Not only are they wasting money, they are also wasting time which is necessairy so that you don't have to suddenly close all your powerplants in a few years.
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Money which could have been invested in lowering emissions locally in the first place perhaps :thinking:
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Could? Yeah sure, but most people outside of reddit excluding young people don't think climate realism is stupid and may even agree with it to some extent.
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We're the ones paying for it though.
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Well yeah cause we fail to elect a government that cares enough.
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Which is not a bad thing. Soms countries have more potential to exploit renewables economically than others. The ETS enables resources for environmental investments to be allocated to where the benefits of investing are largests. We still pay, but presumably less than what we would have paid if we invest locally to teach the same goals.
Of course, the ETS price does not reflect the urgency to invest, but that's up to the EU to fix.
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What is idiotic about it? Not an expert but doesn't seem like that bad an idea at first glance, given the right settings and conditions.
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The fact that you think it's idiotic and the way you simplify it shows you know nothing at all about the system.
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There was an insightful comment here.
It has been deleted in protest of this website having turned into a fascist propaganda outlet.
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Yeah they're much, much too low.
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Dont expect them to read it, they just want to rage, not actually help the climate.
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Did you forget a word? Read 'about' it? Cause there's not much to be read from a Basta sketchumentary apart from subtitles.
(i trust the makers read quite a bit about it before making the sketch tho, esp. Geirnaert and Scheire. It'd be a surprise for me if they didn't.)
I also think i'm not the only one on here who learned about ETS from Basta first. Wouldn't it be pretty telling if that were true?
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Yes.
And I dont mind people not knowing (much) about ETS or only knowing it from a video. What I do mind is those people heavily opposing the shit they don't know anything about or only from a sketch.
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Can someone please translate this title for me ? In a few years, I do plan on applying to university in Belgium: and all I see is “multinationals” and a guy with a worried look on his face so now I’m scared haha.
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PVDA: “Vervuilende multinationals krijgen miljoenen subsidies uit Vlaams klimaatfonds”
PVDA (party of labour): "polluting multinationals receive millions of subsidies from the Flemish climate fund."
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Thank you so much for this translation ! (That title though, ouch haha
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'poluting multinationals get millions of subsidies from Flemish climate fund' -PVDA (extreme left party)
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Vertel's iet dak ik nie weet.
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Their proposal will kill off polluting industries in Belgium and we will be left with import from abroad as the demand for these products is not tackled.
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ah yes, the 'subsidize clean air elsewhere'; or the 'your company is the biggest polluter in history. Guess we'll subsidize you a bit to lower it' climate cards.
It's the EU way.
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I see you rubbing through the hairs of plant workers "ah well to bad you lost your job, atleast you did your bid for climate"
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if those are the Flemish plants:
you seriously need to ask yourself whether it is healthy that factories require subsidies to be kept operational.
If factories need subsidies, it becomes even more difficult to start up a new plant (free market idea), then the economic/tax climate needs to change.
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I think you are mixing up wallonia's steel plants with Flanders' plants like bayer, basf, ineos, total who operate at a profit
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if they operate at a profit: should we offer them subsidies?
And uh.. companies like Total, ah yes, those totally don't have anything to do with pollution impact eh?
My opinion, at best, the government can give those companies interest-less loans to install pollution reducing measures.
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PVDA should be at least on SP.A levels of popular I think
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They probably will be, if this shitshow continues
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Saw some new poll where they share 8% with SP.A in flanders. Their program overlap with SP.A's and Green with almost 80%. Their most radical program is implementing a 32 hr work-week.
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It seems no more than fair that in return for these subsidies the multinationals sign binding goals when it comes to CO2 emission and other climate parameters. If we are just giving them money to help them get greener nothing really stops them from using that money for other stuff that will make them richer.
Let's not make the mistake of thinking that multinationals are trustworthy friends, they are trade partners and with trade partners you put everything on paper, as concrete as possible.
I don't think you ever applied for subsidies.
Subsidies are not blanc cheques that you receive after filling in an a4.
It's quite complex, often given in parts and indeed there are strict and thorough check during and after the subsidies to see how the money is spend.