Source
r/web_design•
cryer

What's the best CMS for a main company website with both lots of both dynamic and static content?

The website has lots of tables of data and such that needs to update often throughout the day but also has static content in other sections. We are a Java shop mostly but are open to other choices if they are superior. It has to be designer-friendly in a way that allows for easy customization.

We're looking at Magnolia right now, anyone have any experience with it? I've heard Wordpress is ok even for a corporate site but this will have lots of dynamic data as stated, so not sure. Expression Engine is another option or maybe Drupal. But we're open to anything good. We've never used a third-party solution for this before but would like to change over to something better. And again, one major requirement is that it makes it easy for a web designer to design and implement for as well.

Posted Dec 19, 2010, 5:57 PM UTC

953
ridl•

I use Drupal every time. With all the tables it sounds like you might want to create a number of different content types, which Drupal with the CCK module excels at.

11
cryerOP•

So it will be good with hooking into existing javascript widgets and such? That dynamic content I speak of is mostly built dynamically, DHTML. For example, a table of data that gets built and refreshes with updated values every fifteen minutes.

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ridl•

Should be, although that's a bit beyond my depth. It definitely won't have trouble with data it recognizes, regardless of what updated it last, and extending is what drupal was meant to do... embedding php (and probably js) or making your own extension if you need to is, like the whole cms, fairly easy, well documented, and supported by a very engaged community.

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cryerOP•

Ever have any problems or troubleshooting that you need to work with the actual PHP? We know mainly Java and there's no one here who knows any PHP

1
ridl•

Not particularly. I've had times when it's helped to be able to roughly parse/cutnpaste php (particularly when theming), but that's the limit of my knowledge... less than a day of study would put almost anyone ahead of my working php skillz. Webdev is only a side job for me but I've done a decent number of sites for non profits and small businesses using Drupal for almost all of it.

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[deleted]•

Drupal would fit the bill nicely but it can be difficult to implement designs. The real reason I love Drupal is the expandability of the system. Almost anything you want to do can be done with little to no programming. I know some people frown on that but I really love it.

Wordpress is excellent as well with lots of plugins and very easy to design. But of course it's more bloggish in nature as compared to a cms.

Really either one will serve you well if you put the time in.

9
eightfivezero•

with little to no programming

Are you serious?

EDIT: I mean, you can't be serious, right?

2
anon1984•

As a Designer, I've implemented pretty complicated Drupal sites with all sorts of dynamic features. I really only had to look at code at all if I wanted to customize something beyond it's original design.

It is entirely possible to create a dynamic, data driven website without writing any code.

6
Captain_Kittenface•

It is entirely possible to create a dynamic, data driven website without writing any code.

While it's possible to do this in wordpress and many other opensource cms's as well I don't recommend it. The plugins and modules and themes available might get you close to what you need but when building for a client you will always have to customize and expand on the code to do exactly what is needed. If you're not doing this either your clients are pushovers who will take what they get or you're screwing over clients or both. Every clients needs are unique and while all the cms solutions out there are fantastic for giving you a framework to start from don't expect them to do all the work for you.

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cryerOP•

How do you mean difficult to implement designs? In what way? I've never worked with a CMS directly -- I build the HTML/CSS and work with devs to get it all implemented while they are the ones dealing with our (inferior) home-grown CMS-ish system. As far as I understand it, you build templates in a typical CMS so how difficult is it to do so? Or is that even what you are referring to when you say it is difficult?

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dbt10•

Expression Engine

7
slow_as_light•

I have a love/hate relationship with EE. It's incredibly powerful, and the perfect thing for someone who's not quite a programmer, and doesn't quite get databases.

Here's the issue: as you start to grow as a developer, you find yourself hacking around EE's weird little template abstractions, writing ten times as much code because you need to write a plugin instead of a relatively simple function.

When things go wrong, which they inevitably do on any platform, the debugging information is worse than useless. Same goes for Ellis' support. The first thing they tell you when something's wrong is to disable all your third party plugins. Even though that's fairly reasonable, it's often like un-baking a cake.

Ultimately, I felt hugely liberated by Django, which is a web framework built in Python, not a CMS. It does however have some decent CMS packages (django-cms is my favorite for most purposes). Rails/Django/Cake/Codeigniter/etc. aren't really for beginners, but they're a great goal for a developer who's starting to outgrow his or her CMS.

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dbt10•

I should qualify that... it's extremely powerful (built on Codeigniter) and plenty customizable. The technology is cutting edge.

Most importantly, it's very easy to use -- for developers, and for clients.

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drucey•

Wordpress - it's growing everyday in it's functionality and possibility, perfect for both dynamic and static content, and a surprising number of sites are using it now.

edit: seemingly a very controversial choice, lots of ups and downs

5
McIanAvelli•

I use Wordpress exclusively for all business websites. Many free templates, lot of plugins to do things for you, multiple post types for static and dynamic content, clean code. You just can't compete with a open source project whose motto is 'Code is Poetry'.

6
michaelsv•

+1. WordPress is extremely underrated as far as its capabilities as a CMS.

I think the main reason for that is because when you think of WordPress you typically think of all sorts of hacked up templates, plugins, etc to get it working correctly.. and I've seen plenty of sites where that turns into a trainwreck.

However, if you can develop everything yourself WordPress is straight badass. Clients fucking LOVE using it, and it's just a win win for everyone. I've developed a few sites this past year using WordPress as the CMS and thanks to custom post types along with WP's overall system it is incredibly powerful and straightforward to create anything you could imagine.

I start by coding the layout HTML/CSS, and then start templating that over to WordPress (what's especially nice is that you can work your dynamic content into your layouts vs. trying to work your layout into a templating system). Then, I'll create plugins that specifically handle whatever content the site needs to manage/present. That way, everything is "streamlined" to complete it's own task.

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cryerOP•

The process you describe sounds good -- I create the HTML/CSS myself so you are saying that I would not need to change my workflow? In other words, I can still write it from scratch and then just do some sort of "template conversion" process over to Wordpress? And this is easy?

And what exactly do you mean by working dynamic content into layouts vs. working layout into template system?

Lastly, could Wordpress run something like a Nasdaq-type site with lots of data and Ajax widgets and stuff?

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cryerOP•

I know the reputation is that it's only for blogs but I have also heard it's for much more. However, how much more? I mean, could Wordpress run something like a Nasdaq-type site with lots of data and Ajax widgets and stuff?

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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cryerOP•

Granted, but just getting a vibe of what people suggest so we can form a decent pool to choose from. We've been using a home-grown solution and it plainly sucks.

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[deleted]•

[deleted]

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[deleted]•

ModX is a nice minimalistic choice between web framework (dynamic modules) and CMS. It's very easy to pick up. --> http://modxcms.com/

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cryerOP•

Could it run something like a Nasdaq-type site with lots of data and Ajax widgets and stuff? And work well with backend systems/db?

1
Angstweevil•

It's difficult to say really without knowing the scope of the site. For example Drupal is expandable and powerful, though as vat0r says design can be a bit awkward. But it may be overly complex for your needs.

1
kcolttam•

A company I work with uses Graffiti CMS - (Culturious Tours) - They seem satisfied, may be worth looking in to. :)

1
rolmos•

Depending on the complexity of your site, I'd go either with Wordpress or Perch.

Perch is so good for smaller sites. Starting out with a static site and adding dynamic content is extremely easy.

1
pixel•

NOT EKTRON.

0
mnederlanden•

No matter what cms you use now, in three years, you will realize that it was a colossal waste of money as no cms will ever be able to rank as well in Google as as a professional .php site. Don't do what easiest. Do what will make you money.

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mtheoryx•

That makes no sense, at all.

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mnederlanden•

I am going to make no friends here, but as a seo consultant, I am constantly getting my clients to get rid of their cms and to do a php site. The only people who make money on cms sites are the developer and Google ad words.

Most cms's have canonical content issues (same content on multiple urls), don't allow full control of header content, don't naively allow search engine friendly urls, don't allow article twisting, don't have search engine friendly links, use blog settings (which tells the search engine that it is time sensitive info), and can be clunky in editing alt tags -- especially those in the universal design.

Yes, drupal has plugins that solve some of these problems, but it will just simply be easier to use .php calls. Why work with some thing patched together?

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mtheoryx•

You're completely wrong, on all counts.

I am going to male no friends here, buy as a seo consultant,

I have no idea what you just said.

I am constantly getting my clients to get rid of their cms and to do a php site.

You realize that the VAST majority of CMSs are php sites, right?

Most cms's have canonical content issues (same content on multiple urls)

No, actually, they don't. That's not how they work at all.

don't allow full control of header content,

Every CMS allows full control of the header content. In fact, they allow full control of every single line of code or markup in the entire site. Just because you have no idea what you're doing, doesn't make your statement true.

don't naively allow search engine friendly urls,

Yes, they do. .htaccess files and the mod_rewrite module are pretty standard in every single CMS I've ever seen.

don't allow article twisting

I have no idea what this even means, but a cursory google search tell me it's basically taking one article and repurposing the content into a few additional articles. Basically, spam.

don't have search engine friendly links

Yes, they do. Again, pretty permalinks (.htaccess and mod_rewrite are standard in every CMS)

use blog settings (which tells the search engine that it is time sensitive info), and can be clunky in editing alt tags -- especially those in the universal design.

This is blatant buzzword junk. It means nothing.

Yes, drupal has plugins that solve some of these problems, but it will just simply be easier to use .php calls

Everything that Drupal (a php CMS) does is php calls.

Why work with some thing patched together?

I guarantee that your horrible, unmaintainable spaghetti code of php junk is far, FAR worse than any mainstream CMS.

Also, not that I'm really a huge Drupal fan, but you do know that the fucking whitehouse uses it, right?

tl;dr You are absolutely the exact reason why no one respects the SEO industry.

4
hifiDesign•

I can't upboat you quite enough to express my gratitude for your rebuttal. I will, however, offer my services to design a Photoshop website for you in .PSD form only, for the simple fee of $15. It will be the best Photoshop website you ever had.

3
mnederlanden•

You are proving all of my points. You have to install a ton of adons to mimic the basic functionality of html and php. Go with the more elegant solution.

To the op, if you are using a cms for your organization, is it not because the people who will be adding content don't know how to edit html? Will they be able to edit the htaccess file? Or use anything else these guys ate describing? Cms' are supposed to make things simpler, in practice, they just make things more complicated. Php and html just work.

Can much of a cms be made to work? Sure, but with more work. In the real world, with the marketing guy adding a page, you are just going to make a mess that will get you down ranked in Google.

Asking this forum what cms to use, will give you only the perspective of developers. Down- vote me if you want, but I'm trying give the op real world advice.

-1
[deleted]•

Most cms's have canonical content issues (same content on multiple urls)

Nodewords will let you set canonical URLs in your content. Global redirect eliminate almost all duplicate URLs for the same content.

don't allow full control of header content

You can edit your theme and put whatever bullshit in there you want. Generally, the CMS generates perfectly fine headers though.

don't naively allow search engine friendly urls

That's simply a lie, Drupal core lets you set path aliases for anything you want. And installing [Pathauto] will do it automatically.

don't allow article twisting

Would be pretty trivial to implement. And are you really criticizing a CMS for not being a spam article generation system?

don't have search engine friendly links

My admins can edit content and use my WYSIWYG editor to set whatever properties I want on my links. I even have a filter that will automatically set nofollow on links posted by commenters, who also get to use the WYSIWYG editor.

use blog settings (which tells the search engine that it is time sensitive info)

You can set whatever you want for the interval in XML Sitemap (http://drupal.org/project/xmlsitemap). But setting an interval that's not true is pretty stupid.

and can be clunky in editing alt tags

The WYSIWYG editor lets me set whatever I want for my alt tags, but filling images' alt tags with SEO bullshit isn't going to help out my visually impaired users very much.

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[deleted]•

Three years ago, I chose Drupal. Love it. Now it's improved by three years of development; I can't imagine the next three years are going to go any worse than the last three.

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mnederlanden•

See the above comment for some of the problems with drupal. Although there are some great plugins, such as the one that edits meta text and the other that cleans up the url structures, there are a ton of other problems that haven't been addressed.

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[deleted]•

You mean your comment where you said a bunch of things, half of which don't actually make sense, and the other half aren't true?

I assure you, you can use Drupal to make shitty spam "SEO"ed sites, I just don't fucking bother.

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mnederlanden•

Again, I said almost all of these things are possible with adons. Not that they aren't possible. Do you really think a typical cms user can do these things?

Also, I use all white hat and no spam techniques. Is everyone in this forum this rude?

0
[deleted]•

Joomla FTW

-10
stebbiv•

Are you from the past?

4
[deleted]•

Yes.

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kightlinger•

also, portland.

i <3 portland.

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[deleted]•

Me too. :) The wind is kind of bumming me out. But soon it shall pass.

0