The End Goal

DISCUSSION

I have been going through a lot of mental anguish about the state of the world and the place of women in it lately, and just thinking to myself - as a collective group, what are our end goals? I'm struggling so much with biology, not being physically stronger, having to have a laborsome and difficult reproductive role, being viewed as men's property, on and on.

What sort of activism is required to make a dent in fighting the patriarchy? I know - forming female circles, emotionally and financially empowering women are all good things to do but I don't think these will bring about the fast and drastic results we desperately need.

So, in a hypothetical reality, if we could gain control over majority of world governments somehow, what are the things we would implement? If the men of the world were in the position where they HAD to submit and meet our demands, what would those demands look like?

-no FGM, access to healthcare, reproductive and contraceptive services/education available to all women

-access to education, free from religious or other bias

-equal access and training for employment and financial independence

-mandatory physical offensive and defensive training (martial arts and others) for all women

-banning of all institutions and industries that denigrate or sexualize women in any capacity - pornography, advertisements, even the idea that a company must hire women for jobs like secretary to attract customers

-women must have greater representation in important sectors of society - police, justice, politics, education, law-making and others -extreme action taken against harassment against women in any form and in any field, especially male dominated ones

-positive messaging in media that is empowering to women - more depiction of women in truly powerful positions: as doctors, scientists, artists, educators, and others, with no make up or body modification or alteration

-ban on glorification of make up and body modification. Ban on advertisement campaigns targeting young girls to promote these things as "freeing" or "empowering" -making female only communities more possible, feasible, convenient

What else? How would these impact patriarchy? What would you change/add?

How could we as a group ever be in a position to make demands for the things I've listed?

I'm sorry if I come across as obsessive or insane, I just can't help but think, think and think about what needs to be done. And honestly, unless it's something big enough to demand urgency, I doubt much will change. If women don't fight, aggressively and powerfully, I don't think we will achieve the amount of change and progress we need to aid the millions and millions of women that are suffering. Waiting around for men to change or their culture to change is not the best idea. Please tell me something of you have thought about this and I'm not insane.

Posted Jan 14, 2020, 11:02 AM UTC · edited

3719
ForsakenProfession•

I'm 79 next month and have been thinking about this for the last 50+ years.

I despise the word "empowerment--as if it's something bestowed on us as women. I think we have to be as pro-active as possible. Passivity only invites more oppression. I've always been something of a gadfly, a critic of society as a whole, so it wasn't hard for me to pick up the banner of women's liberation back in the day. But there was sacrifice--I was a 28 yr old mother of 2 who had to support them and did not have a career (working class women usually don't). It didn't matter in the offices or factories where I worked, unless I made a point of sexism being practiced. And I did--but I also knew my own limits and strength (pick your battles wisely). Win one, lose another, and it never ends.

We have to decide what we can do, and do it. Don't demur, just forge ahead. It is always an individual's decision--no group can ever demand it of you. You simply have to have the strength and courage to bring it as an individual and when we do and win, we set precedents for the rest of us. This is the way the law works, at least in the US where we have anti-sexism laws like Title VII and Title IX. And most of us live in democracies or reasonable facsimiles of democracy.

Otherwise, we demonstrate, we research, we write, we set examples, we challenge publicly and privately, both as a group or groups, and as individuals. There are many modes of expression to show our discontent with the way we are treated as human beings.

But you must always act.

25
TypewriterFeels•

Yes, agreed. Ultimately, life is an individual's to live. I think taking everyday with a critical eye and not being afraid to defend your point of view is the best way to move forward. (Too bad nowadays being critical of something has become *literal violence*.)

Alas, I wish I could contribute more in terms of group effort, but overtime I've discovered I'm not good at those sort of things. The best I have to offer are my mind and opinions.

6
ForsakenProfession•

Every woman does what she can do. We just must do it w/o crushing fear or overcome that fear--which is a triumph in itself. Overcoming fear is simply holding the thought that women are born with as many rights as men and that men are born with the same responsibilities to preserve life as women. Our only real difference eventually will be that of our reproductive functions in which men will have to accept half of the consequences and responsibilities for and hopefully will be grateful to do so. Our children deserve no less than to know where they came from. Life can be a mystery sometimes, but that should not be the defining one.

3
letsgotothetrail•

And you’ve just set a fine example!

4
queer_engineer_•

This is really comforting and excellent advice. I understand how OP feels, it can get so overwhelming sometimes. I would find more posts and advice from older and experienced feminist women really beneficial and galvanizing. Things are and have changed for the better but they only seem visible in retrospect and in the bigger picture. Hard to feel change day by day.

4
AntiqueStatus•

I'll add a couple more.

-free child care and since women are the ones doing both the childrearing and the child care it would be pretty satisfying if it came primarily from male taxes. Or maybe they would change their mind and actually help out. (Yeah, you're right probably not) Even when our kids to go elementary school they still need care on breaks and during the summer. This puts a huge dent in the ability of women to be financially independent.

-if someone has been abusive in the relationship, that should disqualify them from having custody, the woman should get custody and he should get visitation. If he abuses the child in a substantiated way, he should lose parental rights and still have to pay support. Also, children under 5 go with mom automatically unless she doesn't want that. I don't know why they did away with the tender years doctrine. It's whats best for children.

-abusers should be put on a list just like sexual predators. There should be a database that women can access.

8
spin_the_globe•

free child care

Free loved-one care, regardless of age or blood ties (think unmarried couples, dear friends, extended family not usually covered under family-care policies)

Because all that is a burden, increasingly so as Boomers get older, and as usual it falls mostly to women to handle it.

5
rruysch•

I would think we should be able to care for everyone, regardless of how many loved ones someone has.

2
shrubrose•

Equal pay.

8
shrubrose•

Wow, this got down voted.

5
fairycanary•

Climate change and renewable energy. Remove all vehicles in tightly packed city areas. Bring back rickshaws for taking people around. Make housing easier.

Complete education reform that actually prepares kids for adulthood

Reform of food and agriculture (tied in with climate change).

More egalitarian history books.

7
rruysch•

I think that if we got ahold of the entire government, we'd totally redo everything. Like, everything. I'm not super well informed, but I've seen the idea that a "matriarchy" would look much different than what we have now.

It wouldn't be the exact same world, just with female presidents and CEOs, because we don't know if federations, republics, democracy, capitalism, or companies would even exist. It would be unrecognizable.

If anyone has links to any writings about this, I'd really appreciate it! I'd love to read about what could be if we were in charge. It's encouraging.

3
bladebreakersOP•

Yes, but how can we be in a position to get ahold of the world governments?

1
Sarahthegreen•

A basic income so that women can afford to have children without being dependant on men.

Equality in government, with quotas so equal numbers of men and women are elected. (e.g. one of each per district/riding/ward)

Free abortion for when birth control doesn't work, for any woman or girl, no questions asked. And encouraging girls and women to not have rapists' babies - they aren't good enough to reproduce - but leaving it up to them.

A tax on advertising.

Applying the Nordic Model to all jobs, not just prostitution, but also porn, stripping, acting, dance, music performance, and modelling.

Subsidizing a transition to sustainable organic agriculture and real food, not the opposite, to support more jobs for women, our health, and our future.

Encouraging girls and women to make dating about men proving they're good enough for us, not the other way around (but when books about this come out, they get trashed by at least some feminists!).

I think some of your choices wouldn't work, like forcing women to take self defence. But assertiveness training might work, and just making supports widely available but not forcing anyone.

3
bladebreakersOP•

But women being equipped with self defense and physical training is crucial in defeating the patriarchy. If women can defend themselves against men trying to physically subdue them, assault them, or rape them, men lose their power.

1
Sarahthegreen•

I don't think it's that simple. A lot of institutional male power comes from not ever being pregnant. I do agree that women being fit and assertive can help in some situations, but not necessarily overall. Handguns small enough for women to use were supposed to protect women from male violence, but they didn't. If anything, they just made it worse, because men are more likely to use guns. I have taken women's self defence and it has helped me cope with having been abused, but it hasn't put a dent in male power over me - it just means I'm less likely to be physically attacked. I can still be controlled in lots of other ways. Plus as I'm aware from actually taking a course, taking self defense is emotionally challenging, and brings up all sorts of issues. We have enough on our plates without having that forced on us because other women or men think it will solve our problems.

1
Amareldys•

TOWANDA!

2
AutoModeratorMODfemininity is ritualized submission•

Welcome to Reddit's most active feminist community! This is a women-centered, radical feminist subreddit to discuss gender from a critical, feminist perspective. If you’re new to gender critical feminism, please familiarize yourself with our FAQ and some of these resources.

Please follow the rules and consider if your submission is appropriate for this sub or if it should be posted to a sister subreddit. See our dictionary of common terms if you’re unfamiliar with lingo.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

1
[deleted]•

[removed]

-6
bladebreakersOP•

You're lost. Hope you find your way.

8
[deleted]•

[removed]

-1