U.S. teenager tortured in Kuwait and barred re-entry into the U.S. - Glenn Greenwald - Salon.com
salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/0...
salon.comPosted Jan 6, 2011, 4:44 PM UTC
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salon.comWhy does the US continue to use outsourced torture when it is both damaging to the US and known to be a very poor means of gathering "information"? Is its real purpose just to intimidate people? I don't understand why this continues.
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I'm slightly less concerned about the outsourcing of torture as I am about the US government's refusal to honor the most basic right of citizenship: re-entry into one's country.
The idea that citizens should be allowed re-entry to their own country goes back as far as the idea of citizenship itself. Breaching such a right is just about the most fundamental denial of rights I can imagine.
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American officials told Mazzetti that "Mr. Mohamed is on a no-fly list and, for now at least, cannot return to the United States."
Untrue. If he is a citizen he cannot be denied entry. This means he can't fly here. He can take a boat.
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So you're mad b/c he was detained without a trial or evidence, tortured and not allowed to return to his own country....
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Uhh yes, that's exactly it. What's not to be upset about?
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Your name is "Mohamed" and you have Somalian parents and you go to a 3rd world country that is a hotbed for terrorism to study Arabic and traveled to Somalia which is a bigger hotbed for terrorism.
Yeah, I'm not sure I can think of dumber things to do. Sucks for his situation though, but should of been avoided.
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So he's stupid for exercising his Constitutional right as an American citizen to travel abroad and re-enter the country?
Fuck. That.
What is "dumb" is people like you who would allow their rights to be trampled on all for the convenience of not having to stand up for them. People like you are enabling this unconstitutional crap.
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Perhaps through your RAAAAGE you should re-read my post where I said it is ok not to let him back in the country.
Oh wait, I didn't. And yes he is stupid for exercising his Constitutional right to travel to a terrorist hotbed. Would it not be stupid for me to exercise my Constitutional right to walk into the inner city ghetto as a white guy and start yelling "nigger nigger nigger"?
Oh and I didn't vote for Obama, so my unconstitutional conscience is clear.
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Two points:
- Your analogy is the stupidest thing I've read in a month.
The Constitution wasn't designed to protect you from individuals who will beat the piss out of you for offending them. The constitution DOES protect you from your own government when it tries to prohibit your entry into your own country. That's EXACTLY what it was meant to do - protect you from your own government.
- I never claimed that you thought it was OK for the US government to block his re-entry. Instead, I called you out as a gutless coward for suggesting that American citizens should avoid exercising their most basic, natural rights of travel abroad and re-entry.
Your Obama comment is apropos of nothing, so I'll simply ignore it as so much "herp derp".
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So you think that people called Mohamed should have their travel restricted? Should the US make that official, perhaps creating a list of which countries it's stupid to travel to depending on your name?
Also, in what way exacty is it stupid for someone with Somalian parents to travel to Somalia? Isn't that quite a normal thing to do?
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No, he thinks people named Mohamed should self-restrict their travel.
You know - this way, you save our benevolent overlords the trouble of having to torture you.
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So you think insert baseless thought here too?
The government has no business telling people where they can or can't go. It's called personal responsibility.
If you want to travel to a terrorist hotbed, that's your choice. It's just not the smartest thing to do at the moment, especially if your name is Mohamed and you visit more than 1 hotbed.
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Took me reading the entire article before it put blame on Bush. I thought Salon.com was slipping at first.
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You think stuff like this happens in a vacuum? This crap started with Bush and he will forever be responsible. Obama has his share of responsibility. He had a golden opportunity to scale back the Bush policies. But he didn't. Now it's institutionalized and will continue forever. Funny how the freedom loving Tea Party doesn't really care.
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I was just surprised that salon.com waited till the end to blame him. They usually are a lot more up front with their blame.
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Folks, this is an AMERICAN FUCKING CITIZEN, mind you. The United States government is not even pretending to give one ounce of fuck about the Constitution anymore.
How much longer can Americans take this shit?
Being on a no fly list means he cannot take a plane back to america.
He can take one to canada(maybe) or take a boat to america. It is impossible for them to keep him out if he shows up in the US. The constitution guarantees entry. I have a feeling the author of this article is just being a sensational fucktard.
The US government also cannot do anything about the treatment in kuwait. When US citizens are imprisoned abroad, they can never do anything about treatment. What they can do it try to get your release and get you the fuck out of there.
But in this case they have no incentive to do so because the fucking idiot was flying between kuwait and somalia. Protip: DO NOT GO TO SOMALIA
Purposely traveling in a way that makes it seem like you are in a terrorist network is one of the dumbest things anyone can do in this day and age. I am sorry, but I would hope the US government would validate he is not a terrorist before lifting a finger to help him.
And suing the government to force them to get you out of a foreign prison isn't going to work, the US government doesn't have any jurisdiction. Getting you out is a matter of the US negotiating your release with the country that has you. And that is never guaranteed to work.
Ahh, the guilty until proven innocent argument! I love it! Not.
You don't seem to get that he is a prisoner in a foreign country. The US has no obligation to get him out. Anyone held in a foreign prison that is helped by the US government is investigated. They won't help you if they think you are guilty. They have to think you are innocent or you are being punished much more than necessary for your crime.
There is no guilty until proven innocent, the US has no jurisdiction. And if they choose to help you, that is no guarantee that they will be able to get the country to release you. If kuwait wants to hold him for 20 years, there is nothing the US can do about it.
It is funny that people refuse to accept the truth in cases like this.
Oh blah blah blah, why doesn't the US government invade the country and free them, blah blah blah*
Two of the three hikers that got arrested for nothing in 2009 are still being held. The chick who was released only got released after the swedes negotiated her release. And her family had to pay 500k to Iran to buy her release. The hikers did nothing and the US can't get them released.
What are they going to do in kuwait if kuwait legitimately thinks the guy is a terrorist? Kuwait is never going to release a terrorist.
Isn't the implication that the U.S. has something to do with his detention?
Being on a no-fly list means he can't get home. Why? Simple, because he can't leave Kuwait on his own volition. Therefore, he can't choose his own destination. Ostensibly, Kuwait will only return him to his country of origin. And what makes you think that Canada or Mexico would even allow him to step foot in their country? Does he have a visa to go to either? Would they allow a person on the United States no-fly list to get a visa? WTF are you thinking?
Kuwait is not some third-world banana republic. They are essentially a protectorate of the United States. They don't fart unless the U.S. tells them to. The United States would have no problem securing this guy's release if they gave a fuck.
"Purposely traveling in a way that makes it seem like you are in a terrorist network". You know what this sounds like? Like fuck you, that's what.
If a person has Somali parents, doesn't it stand to reason that he might have relatives in Somalia? My dad is German - I have relatives in Germany. I occasionally like to go visit them. What the fuck is wrong with that? My mom is Mexican. I have relatives in Mexico. I occasionally like to go visit them. Does that make me look like I am involved in some kind of German-Mexican drug operation? I know lots of lily white Americans who like to travel to Ireland to see the land of their forefathers. Does this make them Irish Republic Army terrorists?
And what the fuck is wrong with him going to Kuwait? As mentioned above, Kuwait is a rich, first-world country with a rich Muslim culture. Hell, I'D like to visit Kuwait someday.
So let me translate your stupid-ass post: Muslims shouldn't go visit their ancestral lands, nor should they travel to Muslim cultural centers. Fuck. You.
There are no direct flights between the US and kuwait. He on the other hand can easily get on a ship leaving kuwait and going to the USA.
You are stupid.
Somalia is not a place non terrorists go. Also fuck you.
No he cannot get on a ship, because he is being DETAINED in a Kuwaiti deportation cell. Did you even bother to read the fucking article?
The article says that he has an uncle in Somalia that he was staying with. So he's a fucking terrorist for going to stay with his uncle?
You're an ass.