Do you ever built Undercity Discovery building? I think this building should be move to tier 1 of garrison buildings. For now, this building is just wast of slot.
Posted Feb 6, 2020, 3:05 PM UTC
22358
No, never build one. I found out that the most effective way of removing undercities is to simply eliminate the faction.
76
Yes, I prefer this way. :)
20
Ditto here.
Skavens are usually on the top of my list of factions to eliminate ASAP in any campaign, right behind sea vamps. Saves a ton of hassle (and money) down the road. Any other faction's nuisance power is laughable compared to the cheese that the rats can display and make use of (nom, nom... ^.^) if you let them do it.
3
Yes but only for the -50% to corruption penalty in heavily corrupted provinces so I don't need to keep a force garrisoned at all times. Not for finding Undercities.
27
Then you will have really hard time as skaven , Ur undercities will be discovered easily.
12
Of course, discovery should be rebalanced if this function will part of garrison buildings, something like this:
Tier 1: +20 discovery
Tier 2: +30 discovery
Tier 3: +40 discovery
6
Even 20 discovery rate puts ur undercity in danger since u keep it around -80ish , also ai won't build it everywhere but they build garrison. That's kind of problem for skaven.
17
Keeping at 80ish is still only two heroes away from detection. Usually 60 is the highest I'd be comfortable going and mostly I just aim for 40
8
Yeah my default layout is food + income + tunnels which comes out at 40. I've even had that discovered once!
4
Heroes are far more easily countered than structures.
1
Oh maybe SFO makes it more discoverable , didnt play vanilla skaven yet.
1
Speaking of undercities, anyone have tips for using them properly? I have no clue what to do with them, or when to even bother.
10
Deoends in what you want them to do. I usually put them under rich settlements then have them get me money/food while being hard to detect.
Other than that i make the building that makes them spread occasionally, and make it hard to detect. I don't do too much else since corruption and public order don't really bother the AI that much. And i haven't found a city to use a vermintide/bomb on. Even if you don't build anything there you get vision of the settlement which can be useful, in general I try to be stealthy with them and change their function based on what I want them to do.
16
[deleted]
7
Classic. The sub was full of videos showing the destruction of athel loren with the release of the prophet and the warlock.
3
If I'm doing Ikit>Skavenblight only for the first 50ish turns usually I sack and follow up with an undercity everytime. Agent made ones are for long distance ones mostly. I start sacking Estalia city by city; all their ports make them a good cash cow, so they get food, income, hiding and one of the road ones, usually the replenishment one. My first engineer builds one in miragliano and then heads north, steal teching and wounding for exp and fuel until the cooldown finishes. I'm usually in Averland by now. It goes in a city with lot of adjacents, and I build an expander. Next he repeats the cooldown work on his way to Altdorf, then Drakenhof, Karaz-a-Karak and then start hitting gold mine provinces these all get double hidden, cash and warp reactors. With Estalia subdued, Ikit heads up into the mountain pass between BP, empire and bretonnia, sacks some of those, builds roads and food in undercities and then comes home to probably get new weapons etc. Sometimes I'll cut over into bretonnia and make a little fort in Massif Orcal to keep an eye on what's up in Brettonia. By now, the seed you planted in Averland should be bearing fruit, so you can start making food and roads in these for later. Your dude whos in the mountains can do whatever at this point; your economy should be able to support 2-3 heavily weaponized stacks +half a dozen assorted assassins and engineers. I usually start laying foundation for vermintides to buttfuck orcs or dwarves, but depends on your gamestate. Around now I start going on the offensive, as goodguys are starting to hit critical alliance mass (if they havent already), destroy all my estalian undercities as I snap those up. And maybe trigger vermintides in the mountain; hopefully overrun or confed queek. Once the main force has all of Estalia and Tilea, all those roads you made earlier will be crazy useful for rampaging all over the empire and Brettonia.
6
I normally build the tunnels and the T4 building that supplies a small amount of food and gold, low discovery but passive food and gold isn't bad
3
Undercites are your best stable food sourc. Focus on it
3
Early on, I build food and Expansion, with deeper tunnels as needed. Once the expansion building is no longer needed, either extra income or research.
Undetcities start slow and are relatively expensive to set up early. But they spread passively and will easily provide for all your food needs from the midgame on.
1
Useless completely. When I play Skaven, I find the corruption in under-city only happens in adjacent province. The province itself has 0 corruption. Plus, the building only work for the single settlement itself, while the corruption spread to whole province.
5
They really ought to make the Skaven AI better at expanding their under-empire. Right now it's something you almost never have to worry about and therefore this building can mostly be ignored
Also make them better at not getting them carelessly discovered as soon as they actually do build any
5
really? I've encountered a fair number of skaven undercities in my campaigns, and tons of campaigns where I obviously had undercities attached to my provinces but I didn't discover them.
Hell, once I lost a city when a vermintide army spawned from an undercity and took over
2
You're lucky then, for me I finished campaigns without even seeing one
1
no. The way I figure it is that for me to be at risk of getting an undercity, I have to be in some contact with a Skaven of Vampirate faction.
But the next turn after making contact with a Skaven or Vampirate faction, I declare war on them and send every stack I possibly can to delete them off the map. If I have to, I will risk losing provinces to other factions, pay off other enemies to put off pressure, if I can't hold/occupy their lands I just make sure to raze their cities... generally whatever it takes to end their presence in my campaigns ASAP.
The Skaven get this treatment for being Skaven, Overpowered and over privileged.
Vampirates get it for infringing on the coat tails of much cooler Vampire Counts and also because pirates are just a shitty trope in general.
Consequently, I never had to deal with Plagues or Undercities in my campaigns.
4
Argh matey, ye won’t say that to me face
13
no amount of bullshit Maelstorm magic making your zombies 'super-smart' enough to do what Vampire Count zombies can't, accounts for "where and how the fuck are your zombies manufacturing all that black powder for their weapons?".
Vampire Counts are presumed to at least have a peasant economy of mortals under-pinning their realms, capable of making whatever war supplies their armies need.
Vampirates have nothing - just bullshit magic zombies and a host of high industry weapons and war machines that are manufactured and maintained by whom exactly?
The entire faction is the biggest ass-pull in WHF with barely an effort made to fit them into the lore aside from some person of ill tastes going 'I wish there was pirates in this game"
Also, pirates were never cool and are widely known to have bad fashion sense.
3†
Hate us cause you ain’t us😎
8
Undead absolutely can be smart enough to do, well, pretty much anything. The main factor is that that making your undead smart is not cost-effective when you operate on land - you have too much ground to cover and the armies you face are large enough to outnumber you massively, should you try fielding super-zombies (that would ultimately be more or less humans but more obedient as far as capabilities go without investing even more power). When you are on a ship, however, space is extremely limited and every zombie has to pull their weight
I's say lorewise vampirates work totally fine as minor players living off scraps and occasionally punching way above their weight by thinking ouside the box - it's turning them into a major power that really start to stretch the suspension of disbelief
But I'm willing to let that slide because even though real pirates were dirty murderhoboes dressed in rags and lack of dental hegiene, pop-culture succeded in making them cool
3
I never build it and just hope for the best.
While I agree that this system is not perfect I would say moving it to a building chain you will probably build anyway will make undercities utterly useless.
I'd say this is not a tier problem and more of a slot problem.
Maybe give it an extra slot specifically to it and amp up the cost.
That way its available but still an investment you would think about.
Price could even scale with settlement tier basically the more valuable the settlement the higher the cost to secure it.
Just a thought.
4
I use it in vampire coast since they have no need for recruitment buildings in cities but that's it.
Its an dumb standalone building. Why does it take 8 bloody turns to build? Its literally a niche public order building
3
I do feel like this part of the Skaven update was rushed. Just give everyone the same building that is otherwise useless and be done with it.
2
moving it to the tier 1 garrison building would basically make skaven undercities useless because everyone gets the tier 1 garrison building anyway.
I kind of like it as-is tbh.
2
If you have better idea, please let me know.
I just think discovery should be part of other building, I don't care if this will be garrison building or public order building or grow building. :)
2
hm, i kind of like it as is. It's a terribly fringe benefit, to be sure, but needing it is kinda fringe too.
Perhaps the problem is that even when skaven DO spread undercity to you, it doesn't really seem to matter enough for you to build this building.
1
That's a great idea!
2
Should do more for taking up a slot honestly. Either add some good garrison troops or agent penalty or something. Otherwise just roll it's abilities in to the normal garrison building.
2
It's the result of undercities being added post-launch. Meaning none of the already existing buildings/technologies/factions were designed to deal with undercities during the game's design phase. The night watch buildings are a band-aid slapped on as an afterthought.
I agree that they should be folded into the garrisons. For Dwarfs/Greenskins/Skaven, I'd argue +discovery should be folded into the base settlement chain. Seeing as they all have extensive experience living underground.
Provincial proclamations could be updated to increase discovery chance.
Heroes could gain the ability to search owned settlements.
Heroes that spread faction corruption could have their skills updated, so that ranks in +faction corruption also add +discovery.
Technologies like the Dwarfs 'Rat poison' should be updated.
Fold the night watch into other non-garrison buildings. Dwarfs for example have a ranger outpost that uses ranger scouting parties to increase vision, and those same scouts would presumably be keeping an eye on Skaven.
2
Only when Skaven are near
1
Nah, that would make the first garrison building OP. If it wastes a slot in your opinion don't build it then.
1
Not sure if people have already said this but it is great for settlements with powerful landmarks that add high corruption, Nagashizzar and the Black Pyramid of Nagash come to mind.
1
I only ever use it in Nagash's Pyramid to deal with all the corruption from building it's unique building and maybe if I'm trying to hold Norsca.
1
I rarely build it but putting it in the garrison chain would make undercities super difficult and annoying to use for Skaven players.)
I think maybe it could use a reduction in build time to 4 turns (down from 6/8 whatever), but doesn't need anything else.
1
Yes, but only when I need the '-50% unrest penalty from foreign corruption' or whatever that's called.
Yes, I know the best way to deal with corruption seeping into your realm is just to expand and eliminate, but sometimes you cannot do this on all fronts and then that PO bonus really helps, cheaper than building up another PO building.
That -50% unrest makes this a truly great situational building that makes it less annoying to convert newly settled regions. It's the kind of building I never knew I needed that I'm very glad they added.
The undercity part of it is mostly there I think to give a bit of random challenge to building undercities in AI cities honestly.
I think it's just fine as a tier 3 building honestly.
I find the huge build time is a turn off for me. If it was 4 turns then sure but when it's over 8 (I can't remember the exact amount) no way.
It is 8 turns. I would like it to drop to tier 2.
Agreed 8 turns is way too much, I guess the thinking is that if it was only a turn or two you would build it, detect and destroy UC then demolish it. At least this way its a bit of an investment and gives the UC a chance to grow a little.
I definitely use this building though, as mentioned above, for the 50% PO malus reduction. Perfect for those newly conquered elven ports in my Norsca campaign.
Exactly this. It appears far too long to build, in 8 turns you can find better and less expansive solution to a corruption problem.
If its best purpose is to help stablize newly settled regions, wouldn't it make most sense as a tier 1 (or 2?) Tier 3 could be too late to matter.
I think you forgot how long it takes to remove corruption from a region. And on the higher difficulties, even a tiny bit of corruption is enough to negate public order buildings
I wound up taking Nagashizzar pretty early on in my Malus campaign, and putting one of these in both settlements in the province got rid of the public order issues completely.