As you know, Joseph was not Jesus’ biological father. Mary was made pregnant by the power of the Holy Spirit. But in order for Jesus to be fully human, his DNA must also be fully human.
How then could he be 100% human if half his chromosomes came from a non-human source?
Posted Feb 7, 2020, 1:02 AM UTC
Basically, I figure that God miraculously transformed one of Mary's eggs (which had her DNA) into the desired zygote for a baby boy, with all the suitable DNA code as would result from combining Mary's DNA with that of a typical Israelite man's DNA^1 , by rearranging molecules or creating new matter or whatever. So the resulting boy -> young man -> adult man would look like an average-looking Israelite.
Footnote 1 - Or, as just occurred to me, He could have calculated what baby-boy DNA would have resulted from a combination of Mary's DNA and Joseph's DNA in particular, even when Mary had not gotten together with Joseph yet at that point, and then rearranged all the molecules toward that desired DNA in the first cell.
This is the only rational comment in the thread so far.
Dude - I might be back on the social media again - depending on the authorities- 💁♂️🤦♂️🕺🦄🍓.
100% of Adam’s chromosomes came from a non-human. Do you take issue with this?
Honestly yes. The way I see it, the same problem applies.
It's not a problem, God created him. He created every atom. For all we know Jesus has zero chromosomes from Mary. Creation isn't that hard to fathom, humans create things every day. You are just getting caught up in the natural process of procreation and missing that it all had to start somewhere.
Uh...you got actual scripture saying this?
Spoiler: there isn't any. Nothing in the bible says God "created" Jesus.
I said God created Adam, which is proof God could have also created the body of Jesus. I never claimed scripture says that nor did I say it was what happened.
Yeah it started with metal ion eating anaerobes around black smoker vents 4.3 billion years ago, they’re your oldest grandpa. It’s a lot easier to create humans by starting with chemicals that turn into self replicating molecules with replication errors turning into whole new species over time than it would be to specifically create hominids. Also the birth defects caused by eve procreating with her children would’ve forced humanity into a genetic bottleneck we never would’ve recovered from. All populations that sexually reproduce require a specific number of individuals to maintain genetic diversity, fall below this threshold and you go extinct.
Allow me to introduce, James Tour
I mean, I think you just described how to specifically create hominids. It just takes a long long time ;)
(This post was made by the "Genesis isn't a scientific textbook" gang)
Did you know that airplanes are made entirely out of things that are not airplanes?
Don’t you think this misses the point entirely?
Christians believe the birth of Chris was a miracle: an alternation of the cause and effect process in the universe by God. The details are not important in any meaningful way here.
Sure, it’s not important. Still interesting to think about and discuss.
I think some things are, but not this one. It’s a miracle claim. There’s no getting around it. God did it or there’s no Christianity.
Let me qualify... it’s interesting to me. Doesn’t have to be interesting to you. I just find it intriguing to think about.
None of Jesus’s chromosomes came from a non-human. See below for a possible explanation.
Even if parthenogenesis were possible in mammals (it has never been observed) it would be impossible (according to our understanding of how it works in other animals) for a female mammal to parthenogenically give birth to a male mammal.
Do the following quotes not contradict your statement?
“In the case of aphids, parthenogenetically produced males and females are clones of their mother except that the males lack one of the X chromosomes (XO).”
Or
“In many hymenopteran insects such as honeybees... females (workers and queens) are always diploid, while males (drones) are always haploid, and produced parthenogenetically.”
No, because those aren't mammals.
Ok, I guess I misunderstood what you meant by “according to our understanding of how it works in other animals.”
Parthenogenesis
Parthenogenesis (; from the Greek παρθένος, parthenos, 'virgin' + γένεσις, genesis, 'creation') is a natural form of asexual reproduction in which growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization. In animals, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell. In plants parthenogenesis is a component process of apomixis.
Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some plants, some invertebrate animal species (including nematodes, water fleas, some scorpions, aphids, some mites, some bees, some Phasmida and parasitic wasps) and a few vertebrates (such as some fish, amphibians, reptiles and very rarely birds).
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100% of his chromosomes are human. He did not receive non-human chromosomes.
All his chromosomes were human. There’s nothing wrong with saying the entirety of His human nature came from the Theotokos Mary. The Logos assumed human nature, uniting it hypostatically with His divinity. He had a human soul, a human will, and was “like us in all things but sin.”
I guess I’m not understanding where the other half of his human chromosomes came from if he didn’t have a human father.
All of his chromosomes came from His Mother. God the Logos assumed human nature from the Virgin. How? God did not reveal this to us, even assuming we could fathom such a mystery— the mystery hidden from before the ages and unknown even to the angels.
Unfortunately that's impossible. Woman only have two X chromosones. Only men have Y chromosones.
So Jesus was a genetic clone of Mary?
Oh, my friend. I am too spiritually and scientifically illiterate and uneducated to answer this question. If you are asking in order to genuinely know, then I encourage you to read St Cyril of Alexandria’s classic work, On the Unity of Christ and St Athanasius the Great’s On the Incarnation of the Word of God.
These two documents of the 5th and 4th centuries AD, respectively, deal with at great length the Mystery of the eternal and ineffable Word and Son of God becoming a human being of the Theotokos and ever-virgin Mary.
If your question is not sincere, then, well, I pray that Christ God gently instruct you not to blaspheme.
Women don't have Y chromosomes. This comment also has zero connection to scripture.
The term is parthenogenesis. Check this (link)[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthenogenesis]
Soto reiterate what others have said, if God is involved I fully believe it is possible for him to induce a function that can happen in other species, in Mary, to demonstrate the miracle of a virgin birth in a human.
So Jesus DNA this way would've been 100% human.
Moreover, forget parting the red sea, or pillars of fire, or any other miracles. This - the virgin birth - is supposed to be the miracle that is so impossible, so ludicrous to consider actually happening, that when it happened it was proof positive of the Messiah being born.
Parthenogenesis
Parthenogenesis (; from the Greek παρθένος, parthenos, 'virgin' + γένεσις, genesis, 'creation') is a natural form of asexual reproduction in which growth and development of embryos occur without fertilization. In animals, parthenogenesis means development of an embryo from an unfertilized egg cell. In plants parthenogenesis is a component process of apomixis.
Parthenogenesis occurs naturally in some plants, some invertebrate animal species (including nematodes, water fleas, some scorpions, aphids, some mites, some bees, some Phasmida and parasitic wasps) and a few vertebrates (such as some fish, amphibians, reptiles and very rarely birds).
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This might be an over simplification, but if we're assuming God created everything, I'd think it wouldn't really be that much of a stretch to say he created human chromosomes in order to form Jesus, would it?
How do you know what chromosomes God used to create him?
Well I don’t think our chromosomes are what make us human; rather we are spiritual beings experiencing a physical world.
And a unique spiritual being because we are made in the image of God within a body made of this earth.
If God miraculously fertilized an embryo do you think he’d use something besides human dna?
Yes, “DiviNA” divine DNA