Source
r/boardgames•
RedNumber_40

Aeon’s End: I don’t get it

I saw that Aeon’s End had a new kickstarter so I decided to hunt down the first game to see if I should back the new one. After playing it once, I feel quite underwhelmed. As a single player experience the game feels incredibly random. The Nemesis getting multiple turns in a row can spell instant defeat and there’s no real way to mitigate damage. The fact you’re always a turn behind on spells means that dicey situations get all the dicier. Overall it felt like a less strategic Marvel Champions without the thin deck-building element tacked on.

For fans of the series, what is it that you like about the game? Is single player simply not the way to go? Or is the first base game itself not very good and the expansions are better?

Posted Feb 11, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC

766
SeeDeez•

The cool thing about AE is you can manage how your deck is stacked so you can set it up to allow for a flurry of attacks or stack up gems to buy better cards.

Personally, I love when the enemy attacks twice in a row because it means I get to (or already have) stack a few attacks together.

Like with any game where randomness is a factor, it just comes down to how well you mitigate risk.

29
XonimTrickerion•

If playing solo, you really should be using two mages. One mage is incredibly difficult.

If you don't like dealing with the huge swings that happen when the nemesis gets 2, 3, or even 4 turns in a row, then this game isn't going to be for you, plain and simple. But one of my favorite things about this game is that turn order deck -- so often you'll have spells prepped, ready to go and the nemesis at only a few health, and it's up to the turn order deck whether you win or lose. In some games, that bothers me. In this one, I just look at it as this big bad nemesis having one last breath and making the most of it. So what if you lose?

19
EDaniels21•

So I was pretty confused with everyone saying how much harder 1 mage is, but I started with The New Age expansion and it turns out the solo mode rules are very different in that expansion at least. I think under the new rules solo is actually easier because it says to still use 4 player turn cards and you only lose when gravehold dies.

1
Penumbra_Penguin•

I found somewhere the suggestion that you use 3 player turn cards - I found that a nice level of challenge for playing through the New Age campaign.

1
wpflug13•

A big part of the game is getting yourself into a position to be able to weather an unfavorable draw from the turn order deck. You have to be efficient and deliberate with your purchases, and you need to make good decisions about how to adapt to the semi random nature of the nemesis. My win rate at normal difficulty is about 80%, so it's very feasible to consistently win with skilled play (i.e. randomness is a factor, but not a decisive factor)..

11
IWasTheFirstKlundAeon's End•

I thought that'd I'd actually answer your questions, like a dweeb.

For fans of the series, what is it that you like about the game?

I love the build-up of both your mage and the nemesis. Both of you are getting stronger, but will you be able to win before the baddie crushes you? I love the wide variety of mages, cards, and Nemeses, so that every game feels like a different puzzle to solve.

Is single player simply not the way to go?

I've never played 1P, but I've tried 2, 3 and 4. My favorite is far and away 2P. I've heard that 1P is simply too difficult.

Or is the first base game itself not very good and the expansions are better?

The base game is good, but some of the other boxes have more interesting mages. And the game really shines when mixing as much content together to make a wonderful Aeon's End smoothie.

10
whoolzyourdaddyOrleans•

To piggyback on this: the mages and Nemesis all feel totally different. The Nemesis don't feel like hit point sponges, they all have different mechanics and need to be approached differently.

For the mages: some really take a play or 2 to unlock their potential.

1
IWasTheFirstKlundAeon's End•

For the mages: some really take a play or 2 to unlock their potential.

So true. When we play, I randomize everything, and some mage/nemesis combinations are really wonky. Often the first game is figuring out which strategy to use, and then attempt to win on the second game.

1
Penumbra_Penguin•

Make sure you're using the newer single-player rules - they got updated at some point.

5
gizmorg•

For us, it's a puzzle to solve. Is it difficult? Yes. I compare it to dark souls. It's difficult but you need to figure it out and it's rewarding. It is hard to keep banging your head against the wall. It's not for everyone, for sure but i love the puzzle/challenge.

The base set is blandish but future options add so much. I just bought the legacy version so we'll see how that goes.

I would never play 1 mage. That seems way too hard.

4
0bZen•

We're you playing with 1 mage or 2? I know solo in the base game was supposed to be very hard with just 1 mage. I think the rules got tweaked in War Eternal, but I have never tried it solo personally.

3
RedNumber_40OP•

I used one mage. I did start with 15 life though, which the game allows as a recommendation. My issue is I don’t really see the strategy. The turn order is random so it is hard to prepare and the cards you buy are set. I’m going to try it with a group to see if it’s better, but right now it feels like a more shallow Marvel Champions. Just my opinion at the moment, I’m going to jump into a second solo game now.

1
dkwangchuck•

I think you're approaching it too much from a tactics perspective instead of a strategy perspective. The Turn Order cards are always in the same proportion, even if the order varies. You know that you'll get three turns to the Nemesis' two turns and that this ratio will prevail over the long run. Yes, the Nemesis might get up to four turns in a row - but only after you've gotten three in a row and you'll be getting another three in a row right after. So the balance is that a huge run of bad luck like that results in two opportunities for you to strike back hard.

Can you plan everything? No, that's what the random turn order does to you. Some Nemesis cards can really screw up your plans, and it's possible for a Power card to come out and trigger before you get any chance to deal with it. That sucks. But when that does occur, you get a good opportunity to counter punch with your own sets of turns in a row.

The fixed market at one player defines your play space. You should be figuring out your strategy once you see the market - picking the bread and butter spells you will rely on to burn the Nemesis down. Figuring out how big you want to let your deck grow. Figuring out a balance between attack spells and having enough ether To Discard the worst of the Nemesis Power cards. Determining whether your Charge activated special ability is going to play a big role in the game. Planning out your growth (based on the Turn Order ratio) so that you're ready when Tier 2 (and then Tier 3) Nemesis cards hit. Knowing how many breaches you're going to need. Identifying risk scenarios like specific Minions who will need to be burned down fast or managing Nemesis special win conditions.

Yes, Turn Order is random, and the Nemesis cards are random (although Tiered, so you can benchmark difficulty). But all else is known. The key is to strategically plan out the entire game once the market is down - allowing for contingencies like Nemesis cards which are strong against your strategy.

11
RedNumber_40OP•

Thanks this is a good overview. Just finished my second game against the Carapace Queen and I was absolutely creamed. Foul Multitudes early in the game just messed me up and I couldn’t come back from 13 husks. I’m going to try this same game again with what you said and see how it goes.

1
dkwangchuck•

Carapace Queen requires management of the Husks. If you can get spells which can have multiple targets, that's great. Remember that your IV Breach is plus one damage in case you need to Spark a 2 health husk.

Sometimes the Marketplace totally determines the way the game goes - and it's not cheating to pick a few cards to include in it. You might consider including Lava Tendril as a spell you can buy.

4
Antistone•

Carapace Queen has a small but notable chance of dealing a quick loss, even if you play perfectly. And is pretty brutal in general. I suggest not playing with her until you've beaten at least one other nemesis.

2
SeeDeez•

Yea the Husks can really stack up fast and bury you.

1
Antistone•

the cards you buy are set

Not sure what you mean by this. You can choose from the shop which cards you would prefer to buy (within your budget) and the shop can change between games. What is "set"?

(Also remember you can spend money on focusing breaches and buying charges as well--these are things you will want to do sometimes.)

2
Concealed_BlazeTerra Mystica•

Means that the market doesn't change over the game. You can look at the beginning and chart a course through the market that will fit your strategy.

2
Antistone•

OP said this right after "I don't really see the strategy", so "being able to plan out your strategy in advance" probably wasn't what he was complaining about (since that would require seeing a strategy).

Also in the original post they complain the game "feels incredibly random", so the fact that card availability does not fluctuate randomly should presumably be viewed as a good thing.

3
0bZen•

I would look up the changes to the true solo mode before trying again. You could also try with 3 turn order cards for yourself. I think 4 would be too powerful.

It's possible that the nemesis can have 4 turns in a row in any game, just more likely when you're using fewer player turn order cards. This could swing the game wildly as I imagine you experienced.

What I don't agree with is "it's hard to prepare". Every game of Aeons End I play is preparing for the inevitable bad swings and plinking away the minions, then when the timing is right devote all our turns into just blasting away the nemesis health pool.

I also think that the love Aeons End gets is the unique abilities each nemesis has. They got more interesting as the expansions went on, you may be playing against one of the blander ones in the original game which is why it seems like a more random Marvel Champions.

1
classy-boner•

I'm pretty sure they changed the rules for True Solo in New Age. They took out the part about 3 player turn cards, so I'm pretty sure the default is to use 4 player turn cards now. Below is an excerpt from the New Age rule book.

"In true solo play, you play as only one mage. When playing true solo, you are your own ally. For example, if a card gives a charge to an ally, you instead gain that charge yourself. If an effect affects you and another player, you resolve that effect twice. You don’t lose the game when you are exhausted. Instead, you lose the game when Gravehold has 0 life. Otherwise, play the game as normal."

3
Antistone•

I haven't read the New Age rules, but if they don't mention player turn cards at all, that sounds like an error rather than a deliberate change. 2, 3, and 4 players all use the same number of turn order cards, but they don't use the same cards, and each player count has separate explicit rules for how to set up the turn order deck. So the solo rules should have some instructions for this, regardless of how many cards you use.

2
afrubin•

Fair warning, I've recently fallen in love with Aeon's End, hard. Had a game weekend with some friends a few months back and it was recommended to me from someone I trust with knowing good games.

Most of the games that I've played are 2p, my wife and I, and that's how I started out learning the game. I've also played solo (double fisted) and with 4p. When I wanted to tackle it on my own, after seeing it a few times multiplayer, I realized that their version of a pure 1p just wasn't great for the strategy game that it is. It's not dynamic enough as one mage, so if you do play it 1p, I recommend double fisting. Additionally, how you play the game completely changes based on the number of players you're playing with. You cannot play a 4p game exactly how you play a 2p game.

What I love about the game is that at the heart of the game it's about strategy and making the appropriate moves not only on your turn, but what how your setting yourself up for future turns (this mostly plays out in the mid-to-end game). It does also have that sense of 'randomness', which some may see as unfair, but I see it as an ever changing landscape. Your best laid plans won't always work out and that's ok.

The game can be what you want it to be, either by randomizing your supply decks, choosing different difficulties, mages, bosses, etc. **OR** you can purposefully make those selections.

The drawback to the game, and this is where I think some flak is rightfully deserved, is that it is better when you get expansions to build upon that variety ($). I've only played with the base game and first two expansions thus far, but I've bought most of the rest. At this point, I feel even just having those two expansions from the base game opens it up so much more, and I cannot wait to try to use some of the 2nd and 3rd wave mages/items/etc.

3
RedNumber_40OP•

Thank you for such a well thought out opinion. I agree with you that the solo experience so far is not ideal. I'm going to try and play it three-handed and see how that works out. If I were to get one of the mini expansions, which would you recommend?

1
afrubin•

Not a problem. I would recommend the 2p over the 3p. Even playing 2p, solo, can get a little complex. 3p would mean you need to keep track of more and start thinking of specializing your mages instead of just powering them up individually (as I said the difference in players changes your approach). As far as the base game is concerned, The Depths and The Nameless are the two connected to original. The Depths offers more mages and 1 new boss. The Nameless offers 1 mage and 2 bosses. It's kind of a toss up imo, but one of the bosses in The Nameless is my favorite to date (Wayward One).

2
Notfaye•

the deck stacking is a highly strategic puzzle that for a lot of bosses is going to be key to not getting steam rolled. You can also pick your card pool and later mages are fairly complex with new rules.

IMO the game didn't get good until it started adding the story elements, secret elements, and pool restriction on the first play through. Then it really did outpace everything in the genre for me.

For how easy Marvel champions is, I'm surprised to see this called "less strategic" as there is a very small decision space in MC, and it tends to be extremely forgiving.

2
ninjarager:spirit_island: Spirit Island•

Aeons end is bad 1 handed, unfortunately

2
Ninja_Badger_RSA•

The New Age is pretty good one handed. My preferred way to play. They did slightly change the rules so that may explain why.

1
seiduleTalking head at I Heart Board Games on Youtube & Twitch•

I've played AE:WE and the Legacy version all the way through. I didn't get it either. My group feels the same way. I really wanted to like it because it was gifted to our twitch channel, but I found myself comparing it to other deck builders and preferring them as I did that. We played with four players and often thought it'd be easier at lower player counts. But the challenge wasn't the issue for us. We didn't mind losing a co-op. It just didn't grab us thematically. There are people that come to our public game night that do enjoy it though.

1
chaoticsynergy•

What do I like about it? The variety in nemeses and mages, the variety in the market, and the steady growth in power of my mages.

I do always choose my market ... it's an enjoyable part of planning my strategy. By changing the market, I can change how I approach the game.

1
GrittyWillisFeast For Odin•

I lose this game a lot! A freaking lot!

I love thos game. It's easy to reset, fun, unique, different everytime with the variable market, different mages, different nemesis.

It's just good and fun. I play solo exclusively thus far and 2 handed.

1
tankbardSOMEBODY FIGHT ME•

Buy more early damage.

1
Medwynd•

"what is it that you like about the game?"

I like everything about it, the deck building, the bosses, the variety of content, the coop play.

I have all the content since this came out and this along with Thunderstone Quest are our favorite deckbuilders.

"Is single player simply not the way to go?"

I cant really speak to that since we only play 4 player but its possible it isnt a good single player game.

"The fact you’re always a turn behind on spells"

Also be sure youre playing correctly because this isnt the case. You only have to cast spells from focussed breaches. If you prepped a spell to an open breach you are not required to cast it. Thus you are not always a turn behind on spells.

1
SfordAeon's End•

I really enjoy both Aeon's End and Marvel Champions. Though I don't really like playing either of those games with just 1 mage/hero, because they become much more swingy (Rhino being the most swingy in MC, because he can generate all of the threat he needs in 1 turn).

I recommend playing with 2 mages solo. If you play 4 player, I'd recommend using the 1/2 and 3/4 cards, so that you can decide who should go first.

What I like about the game is that you can be very strategic about how you build your deck, putting certain cards next to each other in your deck. And every game feels kind of like a puzzle to figure out how to use the market cards you have available with the mages you have to defeat the nemesis. Changing any of those things feels like a different puzzle to figure out.

Also, unlike most other deck builders, you don't just spend money on cards. You can also spend your money on charges, focusing/opening breaches, or removing nemesis power cards. In games like Dominion or Marvel Legendary, you just buy the best card you can afford. I like having options.

1
Inconmon•

It's actually quite an easy game. We've beat all nemesis on 1st try minus the latest final boss of New Age - and that's because his cards offer a instant win combination if he goes 4 times in a row. It's rare but stupid design that was poorly playtested.

There's two major flaws. It's the turn order deck combined with how nemesis cards work. Cards that offer you choices are great (eg damage to grave hold or discard cards, or spend 6 money or in 3 turns the nemesis does something). However cards that add random instead of choice feel stupid (reveal too card if turn order deck and do something if player or nemesis). Similarly having a power card that can be stopped be instantly triggered by nemesis having 3-4 turns in a row is silly.

1
FireslideEldritch Horror•

Never played it single player, never will.

Why I like it?

Dominion style markets: each game you get 9 cards you can buy to build the best deck. Dominion itself has heaps of replayability just on this alone. Each Kingdom is it's own puzzle to solve, Aeon's End is the same. You could play the same Mages, same Nemesis and different market each time and it would still be fun. Some market's may be degenerate once you've identified the winning strategy with one, a similar market will have the same solution.

Lots of Mages: Every mage has a different enough starting point that even if you kept the same market and nemesis, you might come up with a different solution to use their powers.

Different Nemesis: Where the game really shines is each nemesis really does provide a different challenge about what's important each game. Rageborne is an intro boss and it's a straight up damage race. Prince of Gluttons? He's about beating him while buying as few cards as you can. Gate witch? She's all about getting extra nemesis turns, so early on she's getting 2 for the player's 4, later on when she unleashes enough, she's going to be getting 3 or sometimes 4 in a row regularly. There's enough variety in how the different Nemeses play that it makes the game feel different.

Turn order and Nemesis deck: This is the only point where randomness really starts to impact you. It can disrupt your long term plans as a player might have to sacrifice a turn to deal with a power or buy spells or gems earlier than they planned to deal with the nemesis threats. If there was a static turn order and then a nemesis phase the game would be easily solvable, the nemesis getting 4 turns in a row can lose the game for you, but if you're playing well it won't, but will require some damage control to survive. I find winning or losing the game based on turn order deck to be satisfying and indicating the game was pretty close. I've had other games where we got crushed because we failed to deal with a threat early enough and others again where we easily won before halfway through tier 2.

Randomness together: Putting all the above points together, with random nemesis, mages, market you have a unique long term puzzle to solve about what the best cards to buy are, how each mage should build their deck. Then within the nemesis deck and turn order there's enough chaos and variability to make it so that long term plan may need to be changed midway through, or tweaked to deal with threats as they arise.

Expansions: Owning all the content now, the base set has some pretty interesting nemeses, but the mages are relatively unexciting. Future expansions add some unique mages that can be worth building around. Every mage has a natural leaning towards being a damage dealer or support style character, but they aren't bound to play that way. Some of the new market cards play around with different mechanics that combo well with certain mages. Some mages only get 1 breach, or they have a special beach that does something interesting when spells are cast from it. New Age has added some of the most interesting mages to play. Qu has a builder and destroyer form where you're either dealing extra damage from spells and less Aether from gems, or the other way around. There's one guy that starts with deck full of sparks and he has a card that lets him discard them Aether. Another guy can charge up his special breach and for each time it's charged up, spells do +1 extra damage, to the point that a single spell cast from it can be dealing upwards of 12 to 16 damage.

There's enough variety in the game that I could play it 1000 times more and still never have seen everything.

1
flyliceplickL'hobbe, c'est moi.•

After playing it once,

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RedNumber_40OP•

Yes after playing it once. How many times must I play a game to have an opinion? That’s why I’m here to ask other people what their experiences are.

7
Drunkpanada•

after playing it once

Asking for an opinion after playing it once is one thing. Your initial post came across as a criticism of the game after playing it once.

I have 22 game of vanilla AE under my belt. Its a great game but I would not play it with a single Mage, there is not enough "meat" to distribute damage. The minimum is 2p, it plays really neat with 3p as it introduces the Wild turn. Give it a shot with multiple player counts. My most memorable experience was when a friend set off a chain reaction of spells from 2 other mages and dealt something like close to 20 dmg in one turn.

3
RedNumber_40OP•

One can have criticism after a single exposure. I've played four games now and I honestly don't feel too different about it single player. From what I've been told I could play 3 handed but that seems a bit excessive for a solo game. I'm glad you enjoy it, but I'm not a fan. And that's okay. I'll try it with friends and see how it works out multiplayer.

1
Antistone•

I always thought the wild turn was a big problem with 3p, because the strategically optimum thing to do is basically to pick one player and give them ALL the wild turns. Each mage gets stronger over time, so the more turns you've already taken, the more you can do with another extra turn.

It's sometimes fun to plan the whole game around supporting one mage, but I think it's a real shame that this is always the strategy at 3p. The other two players tend to feel neglected (especially if it's their first time playing).

I've played 3p games where we agreed to give everyone equal bonus turns instead, but this noticeably increases the difficulty.

1
Drunkpanada•

The few times we played it we would:

  1. Give the wild turn to the player that seemed to be in the best position AT THE TIME
  2. Try to be equitable and share that stuff with everyone. (I took it last time thus I wont take it again) It might not be optimal but is optimally enojable
1
FireslideEldritch Horror•

The new rule for 3P in the New Age has a wild token. After you have the wild turn you pass it to the right, so it in effect gives all players same number of turns.

I'd prefer the system of each player has a wild token and once it's used it can't be used again until all players have used it. So you still get a bit of choice as to who takes the wild turn sometimes.

1
Penumbra_Penguin•

People who say "I've played this game once and it definitely sucks" are often being silly. People who say "I've played this game once and I don't really get why people like it - can you explain?" are often being reasonable. I don't see a problem here.

7
Antistone•

How many times do you usually play a game you didn't like the first time?

1
Medwynd•

Not the op but my answer is exactly that 1 time.

1
dictionary_hat_r4ck•

I have to completely agree. Played it once at 4p and I was underwhelmed by the art, play and general mechanics. I don’t see why it’s still popular.

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