Noldor or Ñoldor?
Is there an explanation for the (seemingly) interchangeable use of both "Noldor" and " Ñoldor" by Tolkien? Is the latter pronounced "Nyoldor" (as the Spanish "Ñ") would suggest?
Posted Feb 25, 2020, 11:42 AM UTC
5212
That "ñ" for Tolkien referred to velar nasal /ŋ/. It is not interchangeable with dental nasal /n/. Tolkien always used "Ñoldor" in his latest writings. Because he changed his mind about the "ñ > n" rule, abandoning it for the dialect of the Ñoldor.
The later history of initial ñ whether from old simple ñ or from ñg requires to be noted. It remained in Ñoldorin pronunciation, but became n- (by sound substitution) in the colloquial TQ {i.e. daily speech) of the Vanyar, though the learned among them continued to employ ñ when reading or reciting PQ {i.e. formal speech}. [PE19/76]
13
Adding to what's been said, Tolkien was constantly changing names. Often there was indeed a linguistical justification, but he didn't write all of those down and sometimes it was just personal preferece.
4
Ñ, as used by Tolkien, refers to the "ng-sound" as in the word bang, for example. Thus Ñoldor was properly pronounced "Ngoldor" in Quenya, but in the Exilic Quenya spoken in Middle-earth, this initial ñ was simplified to just n, thus yielding Noldor.
Thanks! I seem to have forgotten that Tolkien was a magnicifent linguist and he even thought of phonological changes for his languages. What a guy...
It seems that u/Atharaphelun forgot my correction.
I'm not sure if it's just because I speak spanish, but "Ñoldor" sounds hella goofy
Yep same. And every time I see it I go. Ñe
Kind of like gnocchis? Lol
if he'd been writing more recently, he might've used an eng: ŋoldor?
I'm having a hard time picturing that pronunciation. Can you give any examples of words that begin with that sound?
Words beginning with the “ng” sound obviously don’t exist in English, but they do in Maori, Filipino, Vietnamese, Swahili, Albanian, various Chinese languages...
There are no words with initial /ŋ/ in English as far as I recall. But I know one word that has it medially and without the oft-accompanying /g/. Both the UK and the US pronounce singer as /ˈsɪŋə/ & /ˈsɪŋɚ/. Hopefully that helps.