General of Chariots and Cavalry? Chariots confirmed!
Posted Mar 20, 2020, 10:41 AM UTC
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Sorry, can't tell if op is joking or not. If yes I apologize for ruining the joke, if not then read blow
Generals of Chariots and Cavalry was an important and prestigious rank in the Han and three kingdoms but the days of chariots as a weapon of war were long gone. Total War is probably just reflecting the rank, I doubt chariots are coming
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Massed chariot warfare was gone, but they can still use chariot command posts/chariot officers, chariot artillery (giant crossbows mounted on chariots), and armored chariot/battle wagons that are linked up into wagon forts. All of those were still used as late as the mid Han era or even later, and thus wouldn't be very anachronistic if incorporated into TW3K.
As for obsolete massed chariots - then again, the game has bronze age weapons like fat Zhou Dynasty swords and medieval ages era weapons like Lu Bu's Ji and counterweight trebuchets, so even massed chariots as another form of cavalry would not be the most anachronistic thing in the game.
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The only time chariots, as part of war (still used for others) is a novel battle with the Qiang as far as I can recall. Could be wrong (I could well see the command posts though most used horses as far as I can tell)
In fairness some of those anachronisms is due to the novel from which the game is at least partly based of. Total War games are as you point out never completely historically accurate could end up having chariots, it might not (my suspicion is not) but the use of the rank should not be read as a signal.
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I was more referring to records of the Han Dynasty rather than the ROTK novel. Chariots were used during the Han era for different specific purposes - eg. armored chariots/wagon forts linked up to create fortifications in the 1st century BC and large crossbows mounted on chariots. I am not sure if they were used later than the 1st century BC. So that might be slightly anachronistic as it is 2-3 centuries before 3K, but it's not significantly anachronistic.
As for the novel, yeh, the novel has a ton of anachronistic stuff. So I'm thinking massed chariots is pretty anachronistic, but isn't going to be that far off if we are combining history + the novel.
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I was referring to both the history and the novel in chariots (bar that weird novel Qiang battle) not being used in battle during the 3kingdom era. For me, chariots would cross an anachronistic line but I realize for others it would not and they really want them
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车（chariot）骑(cavalry)将军(general)？
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Forgive me but not sure what the question is?
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think he's just confirming the title in chinese.
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think he's just confirming the title in chinese.
Ah right, thanks.
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For example, I believe Yuan Shao had the title "General of Chariots and Cavalry" himself.
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Serious question, were the Chinese still using chariots in the time period of Three Kingdoms? Much like armies in Europe I would expect that cavalry had long supplanted chariots as much more efficient means of forming mounted forces by the 3rd century BCE.
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They were not, but the title continued to be used.
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China was one of the last places where Chariots were still used in battle. A lot of it was a prestige thing for noblemen. Three Kingdoms period is just about the last time they were ever really used, and it looks like it was mostly for generals and officers to ride in.
Use and design appear to have met their apogee during the Spring and autumn period and began declining with Qin and Han dynasties.
So its plausible that they could be in game, should CA be willing to fudge the time period, but its really right at the end of their use by armies, if even that, and they appear to have been largely used for resupply and transport. I have found contradicting information though and I cannot read the Chinese alphabet (nor speak any Sinitic language). Anybody with better knowledge please correct me.
I enjoyed this documentary about rebuilding a Chinese Chariot from Nova. The Chinese design for it was pretty interesting.
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Chariots were used as 'mounts' by generals, specifically armored ones so that they could more-safely survey the battlefield. They were also used as troop transports, sorta like old-school dragoons or war wagons, but direct combat use was obsolete. That said, it'd be a cool option for Strategists.
However, they were used by one man, albeit still not necessarily in open combat- Gan Ning, during his days as a pirate, had teams of chariots dominate the roads. They even rode in formation, like bosouzouku of ancient China. If he was ever made a playable faction, I'd say it'd be worth adding them.
And honestly, even without him, I'm for it. They would be a little off the period but add another layer of diversity in combat, like the zhenmajian, which slightly foils Wu Xing due to being 'exotic'. High armor pseudo-cav that moves slower and doesn't kite as well but can drill through formations better than shock cav while having less staying power than melee cav? Notable is that they're more vulnerable to halberds than spears- giving ji users their own thing to counter.
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Massed chariot warfare was obsolete a few centuries before the 3K era, but the Han Empire still used chariot command posts/chariot officers, chariot artillery (giant crossbows mounted on chariots), and armored chariot/battle wagons that are linked up into wagon forts. All of those were still used as late as the mid Han era or even later, and thus wouldn't be very anachronistic if incorporated into TW3K.
As for obsolete massed chariots - then again, the game has bronze age weapons like fat Zhou Dynasty swords and medieval ages era weapons like Lu Bu's Ji and counterweight trebuchets, so even massed chariots as another form of cavalry would not be the most anachronistic thing in the game.
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Chariots has also been mentioned in reform tree for while
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KINGDOM OF SURTHA EK INTENSIFIES!!!
Yuan Shao has potential to be Three Kingdoms version of Surtha Ek. :) https://youtu.be/YVrIV9S6Jro?t=1364
OMG I love this scene. Yuan Shao's skepticism, the Emperor's horror, and even Cao Cao beating the drums!
Only the Chad Generals beat their own war drums.
Cao Mengde is truly an inspiration. I'm not just saying that because I also have a bushy beard.
Momentum not preserved? :d