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r/buildapc•
gpunotpsu

$453 Gaming Build

Here's a very capable gaming machine for $453 $435 (Note: PSU was changed to a less expensive model from the original $453 post). Some people like to spend more but it's always good to know what you can get for less.

The GTX 460 768MB is a bargain and will get great 1920x1200 performance in most games and excellent performance at 1680x1050. The rest of the platform is built to support this card in doing its job at a minimum price with good quality components. The Athlon X3 gives you a chance for unlocking a 4th core and is very overclockable.

TypeItemPrice
CPUAMD Athlon II X3 450 3.2GHz
MotherboardBIOSTAR A880G+ uATX
CPU/Mobo Combo$130
MemoryPatriot Sector 5 4GB DDR3-1333$35
Hard DriveHitachi Deskstar 1TB 7200RPM$55
Video CardMSI GTX 460 768MB$130
CaseEnermax ECA3170-BL ATX Mid Tower$28
Power SupplyAntec Neo ECO 520W$40
DVD BurnerLG GH22NS50B$17
Total
(includes shipping, coupons and rebates)$435

This configuration is very flexible and can easily be upgraded in many ways.

Video Upgrades:

  1. XFX HD 6850: add $33 for 1 step up in video performance.
  2. Cards at this level, like the HD 6870, can't comapre to the next level up HD 5870 at current prices.
    Video cards past here need more power. Get the power supply upgrade listed below.
  3. XFX HD 5870: add $75 for 3 steps up in video performance. Awesome Deal!!
  4. PNY GTX 570: add $180 for 4 steps up in video performance.
    Optional: Try flashing the BIOS on a Sapphire HD 6950 (add $140) into a 6970 for free.

Power Supply Upgrades:
Xigmatek NRP-PC702 700W: add $17 for more wattage to allow for hungrier CPUs and GPUs now or in the future.

CPU Upgrades:
Athlon X4 640: add $35 for a 4th core.
Phenom X4 955: add $75 for a 4th core, 6MB L3 cache and an unlocked multiplier for more overclocking potential.

Motherboard Upgrades:
ASRock 870: add $40 for USB 3.0, CrossfireX, more slots and SATA3 (get an AMD video card and more power for CrossfireX)

Hard Drive Upgrades:
Samsung F3 1TB 7200RPM : add $10 for a faster and quieter drive that has a big fan club.

$296 HTPC:
Drop the video card to use the integrated one on the mother board and get a smaller 350W power supply.
Save another $19 by going to dual core Athlon X2 if this combo comes back in stock.
Drop some extra dough on a cool HTPC case it you want it to look nice.

Notes:

Don't bother saying Hitachi drives sucks unless you can back it up with actual data. I can find nightmare stories for any brand.

If you need Windows you can usually find a $5 off combo with something you are already getting.

Posted Feb 21, 2011, 7:06 PM UTC · edited

1939
RainbowUnicorns•

Can you do one of these hyper budget builds every week? I believe this is your 2nd one. Keep it up!

6
gpunotpsuOP•

Thanks for the feedback. It's good to hear from people other than the ones finding problems with my builds (not that I want them to stop). These are fun to do but it is also very time consuming. I imagine I'll do it from time to time because I find some perverse joy in it but I can also see my interest in real life taking the lead back again soon.

1
tito13kfm•

While Hitachi may or may not suck, might I suggest spending $10 and getting the F3. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185 Disregard that I suck cocks!

3
gpunotpsuOP•

That is a good suggestion and it's already mentioned in the upgrades. For a budget system I think the Hitachi is a good choice. For $10 more the F3 is a good upgrade.

3
tito13kfm•

Wow I'm blind. I didn't even see that in your upgrade section and I read the whole post twice.

3
[deleted]•

Why no love for the Radeon 5770? It's a better bang/buck at $100AR than a $130AR GTX 460 768MB, IMO. Paired up with one of these 4 PSUs, like the Thermaltake could get the 'base model' down to $400 AR.

At the $450 price point I would suggest a Radeon HD 6850 matched with a 400-500W PSU. The 6850 uses less power than the GTX 460 768MB and tends to outperform the more expensive GTX 460 1GB. Seriously, a 600W PSU with a single GTX 460 768MB? GPUNOTPSU, can it really be you?!

That particular model of Hitachi HDD, in one study, had over 5% return rate. That's not good.... That means more than 1 in 20 people returned it. The only drive to out-fail that model was the previous 1TB Hitachi model(revision B).

I'd also get a different motherboard. Maybe if it was $40AR, like it has been. But $65 is a bit high for such a basic board. This BIOSTAR 770 board has a similar combo with the Athlon II X3 450 yet $5 less. It's a full-sized ATX, 4 slots for RAM, more expansions slots, 2 more SATA, and no IGP. Overall, cheaper and better for a gamer.

I'd personally go for the OCZ MXS 700W, it's $50 after rebate/promo(ends today) on Newegg. Costs less than the 600W and 500W models, oddly enough. And probably go with something like the ASRock Extreme3 870, so CF is an option. No other reason to get a high wattage PSU besides multiple GPUs.

For SLI, you could grab an nForce 750a board, like this MSI model for $80AR.

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gpunotpsuOP•

I squeezed it in there as the Crossfire suggestion :) Basically I had to pick a minimum performance cutoff and I choose to do that at the GTX 460 786MB. For some reason I think of the 5770 as a notch too low for modern gaming. I do agree that it is better bang for buck and opens the door wider for a smaller PSU.

With the GTX 460 786MB and the Athlon unlocked and overcloked on 1.36V plus 25% capacitor aging were looking at 450W of mostly +12V power. I won't use the Thermaltake or Cooler Master PSUs based on bad reviews. The FSP 500W is only rated for 360W on the +12V rails. This won't even work with the 5770. The Xigmatek 400W is a 400W power supply for a 450W system. They say it has 40A total on the +12V rails but that is suspicious in itself for a 400W overall rating. Yes it really is me (gpunotpsu) but I've learned to research my power supplies. The larger supply also makes the upgrade paths much simpler.

I chose to spend $5 and get the 880G. IGP is always a nice option for later re-purposing and this one can even play HD video.

The OCZ ModXPro 700W is a good deal today but it got a bad review at HardOCP. I didn't research it any deeper than that.

Good SLI option.

Nice find on the hard disk failure rate stats. I wonder what the sample size was. Very important for understanding if this data is meaningful. I'll look at the article more. Notice that the WD Caviar Black 2TB is 9.7%. 5% sounds bad in certain contexts and better in others. Then we also have to ask what increased margin of failure rate is acceptable for an 18% price reduction.

1
[deleted]•

The 5770 uses under 100W by itself, that's about 8 amps needed on a 12v rail. 360W is 30A. 30-8 = 22 amps leftover. Where's the problem?

I don't think 450W isn't even remotely accurate. Capacitor aging is essentially meaningless for determining the required wattage.

The Xigmatek has 32A(384W) total on the 12V rails.... 20A per rail does not add....

That's not a bad review at all for the OCZ MXS 700W. Paul and Kyle triggered the OCP, and the unit shut down and because it did not pass a single test case they failed it. Other PSUs pop when they overload, like many Corsair units. OCZ has chosen to implement a protection which prevents the PSU from overloading and destroying itself and possibly your other hardware. Kyle and Paul bitch and complain about the MXS's noise/ripple being merely 'acceptable', yet they award their Silver award to the Corsair TX750, with even greater noise/ripple, and call the Corsair TX750's noise/ripple levels "good", and did I mention they give it a fucking Silver award. No wait, this is what I forgot to mention:

Acceptable, however does not win you awards.

Is what they have to say about the OCZ MXS 700W's ripple/noise. They also revisit the OCZ MXS PSU and it passes their tests this time around. Read it. It's interesting... I guess. They explain the nonsense that is "we fail good PSUs". Because "that's our standards". It fails a single test because they don't understand OCP... so they fail it completely. Passes everything else, even their "torture test".

I wouldn't be surprised if they also believe magical fairies design and build processors, and that elves manufacturer PSUs. Except when goblins manufacturer PSUs, then those are bad for some inexplicable reason, because, like, they're not made by elves. Fucking goblins!

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gpunotpsuOP•

I used eXtreme Power Supply Calculator Lite set to an Athlon x4 645 (since the X3 might unlock) overclocked to 3600MHz at 1.36V, GTX 460 768MB, 2 DDR3 modules, 2 high RPM SATA drives, 1 DVD drive and 25% capacitor aging. I'm not an expert on capacitor aging but that site suggests factoring 20-30% for a power supply you want to use for more than one year, so I picked the middle of that range. This configuration gives 456W. That's all I know. It makes me think I should have 456W available, most of which is going to be +12V (CPU, GPU and drive motors). The calculator might be wrong but it's the best info I have.

Based on that I picked a very well reviewed PSU that is only 13% of the total build cost and has a lot of headroom for video card and CPU upgrades. It seemed like a smart choice to me.

As I said about the OCZ MXSP 700, I simply disregarded it based on the bad review. I'm sure it could be a perfectly fine unit and the price is currently very good.

EDIT: I just looked at the OCZ review more carefully and the unit failed at providing 552W of +12V power. It passed at 444W and this would be fine for my GTX 460 build but doesn't provide for expansion. In their retest with the test temp lowered by 5C it pulled 552W which is much better. I missed the coupon on it too so the SXS2 600W looked cheaper at the time and gets great reviews at loads where the MXSP unit fails. I still like my choice but to each his own. At midnight the pricing will swing back to favor the SXS2.

1
[deleted]•

A lot of reviews post the system power consumption. For example, a high-end i7 965 with a GTX 460 might consume around 240W on the DC side during Furmark, and pull around 300W from the wall(AC) with an 80% efficient PSU.

PSUs are rated based on the potential DC output, not the AC input. Capacitor aging can affect efficiency, and in extreme cases can also degrade the quality of the power provided. Capacitors age rapidly over the first month or so of use, the rate at which they degrade becomes slower and slower over time, logarithmically so. It's fairly typical for electronics to be designed so that capacitors reach a nominal operating specification after 1000 hours. At that point low grade caps are probably around '20% aged'(producing around 80% capacitance compared to initially), but that's okay, because most(if not all) PSUs are designed knowing that'll be the case, and after another 9000 hours(a little over a year) the caps will only have aged an additional 2.5(higher quality) to 7(lower quality) percent. Higher grade caps may only age 10% over 1000 hours; 12.5% by a year and ten days. PSUs these days have sophisticated micro-controllers which monitor and regulate voltages and current(among all kinds of other functions); aging just isn't much of a problem with modern 'smart' PSUs. Unless the caps completely fail, the PSU is likely going to work, and if anything fails, it'll likely be the caps(or the fan(s)). Capacitor aging is mainly a relic; mainly applicable to very old, very simple power supply designs.

If you've ever read some of Gabriel Torres, he writes for Hardwaresecrets.com, you'll know he does thorough PSU dissections and reviews. Going over most of the really important bits of hardware inside of the PSU critical to it providing good, clean, reliable power. Nearly everything in a good PSU is well beyond required specifications needed for the particular PSU being reviewed. This allows a large degree of potential degrading/aging, and it's not a problem in the least due to proper over provisioning by the designers. Like high quality caps rated for 105C, but realistically they operate at less than half that temperature, ensuring a very long usable(operating within required specs) life(at least a decade). In other words, there's no reason a good quality modern PSU shouldn't be capable of outputting the rated DC current after ten years of continuous use.

Hopefully I've convinced you that 1 year/'25% aging' translating to your system needing nearly 200 extra watts is not at all realistic; and is also based on essentially the worst case scenario(very low grade caps). It can be a serious problem... with some PSUs, but for any good quality PSU it's simply not an issue.

I really don't see anything to complain about in the OCX MXS 700W review. HardOCP likely triggered the OCP/OPP and the unit turned off. Nothing was damaged! This is a far superior alternative, IMO, to a manufacturer setting the limit far too high and the PSU burning/popping/failing due to overload, possibly taking other hardware with it, and it's actually pretty common.

According to Torres it's also not common for a PSU to allow you to pull maximum current from multiple rails. More than likely if you're pulling the maximum current from any single rail, and you pull any load on any other rail(s) you could very likely trigger protections and the PSU will shut off.

1
nubbinator•

That Thermaltake and that Cooler Master PSU are both bad PSUs that I wouldn't recommend. The Thermaltake failed the review at Hardware Secrets as did the Cooler Master.

0
[deleted]•

They're aren't the same PSUs. The model on Newegg has a newer model number(W0070RUC) than the review sample(W0070RU). Models get redesigned all the time, very often without any announcement of doing so. The newer model also has two 12v rails; not one like the reviewed sample, and also is actually ATX v2.2 compliant. Similar with the CM PSUs, slightly different model numbers. Also different designs. Just look at the pictures of the insides between the Elite Power and eXtreme Power. Not even really close to one another.

You have to pay close attention, they often use very similar model names, but they often use entirely different OEMs, and very different internals between them. Even the same series can often contain multiple OEMs, with various ranges of quality/performance.

The CM Elite Power review is over here.

They're not bad PSUs. They don't deliver their rated wattage, sure. But that's besides the point. They're perfectly capable of providing enough power, and doing so safely(within specification). They're good PSUs because they're perfectly capable of working just great as intended. A load under 200W isn't a problem for any of them.

1
nubbinator•

They're aren't the same PSUs. The model on Newegg has a newer model number(W0070RUC) than the review sample(W0070RU).

And sometimes model names get changed without changing anything except for aesthetics. That said, it appears to be different based upon the rail.

The fact of the matter is that Cooler Master's low end PSUs and Thermaltake PSUs, with a few exceptions, are mediocre to bad units and you can get much much better for the same price or less.

They're not bad PSUs. They don't deliver their rated wattage, sure. But that's besides the point. They're perfectly capable of providing enough power, and doing so safely(within specification).

They may provide enough, but they have far from great ripple suppression and feature sets and other PSUs are better for the same price. In fact, on the Cooler Master review, noise and ripple far exceeded spec. It's better to spend a little more and get a quality PSU than to cheap out and get a crappy one.

A load under 200W isn't a problem for any of them.

Considering it's a budget gaming machine, going over 200w isn't going to be hard, especially with overclocking.

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[deleted]•

They're not bad....

As Torres puts it about the CM PSU:

Even though this power supply can’t deliver its labeled power, it isn’t a bad product for its price tag and targeted audience. Its real power is close to its labeled power (430 W) and its efficiency isn’t bad for a low-end product. Plus it has all its protections up and running, a thing sometimes hard to find on cheap power supplies.

It is better than other low-end products we’ve reviewed. ...this can be an option for the average user that doesn’t need a lot of power...

You say:

...you can get much much better for the same price or less.

...and other PSUs are better for the same price.

It's better to spend a little more and get a quality PSU than to cheap out and get a crappy one.

Which is it? Less, same, or more? What the fuck! Making sure you cover all the bases?

1
BrainThrust•

can you please PLEASE please do this using newegg.ca? Not all the combos and products are directly transferrable. With all the thanks of a 1000 narwahls!

1
gpunotpsuOP•

Sorry but it's basically double the effort and I have no personal interest in Canadian prices...but you could do it.

Narwahls won't buy you what they used to anyway :)

1
BrainThrust•

inflation in the narwahl economy is killing me here! I guess i can take a stab at it based on your american build.

1
BrainSturgeon•

I got a nearly identical build two weeks ago. Same processor, MOBO, 4GB memory, got the 460 for $80 AR from TigerDirect, Antec 300 case (awesome, really impressed), Thermaltake psu...

1
markovich04•

Is a 600W power supply really necessary? Could you get away with something smaller?

1
gpunotpsuOP•

From my research I determined that you need around 38A of +12V power for this build (see my other comment about that). That includes room for some overclocking, core unlock, a second hard drive and capacitor aging (1+ years). You can use any PSU that can reliably provide clean well regulated power at this level.

When I was looking this morning the best deal I found that I felt could deliver was the OCZ SX 600W I chose. It has the added bonus of a lot headroom for GPU/CPU upgrades now or in the future.

Realistically you can probably get away with significantly less than 38A but I don't know how much less and I have to make a safe recommendation based on best the information I have.

I did some more research and found the Antec BP500U 500W at an excellent $39 price. I added a note to the main text.

1
markovich04•

Any recommendation for a CPU fan?

1
gpunotpsuOP•

Yes. The stock one. Give it a try and see if you get the temperature and noise levels you want. If it doesn't work out then you can think about a better cooler. I have an E5200 with a 50% overclock on a stock cooler. This is its max overclock with what I consider reasonable voltages and the stock cooler does just fine and is not annoyingly loud. You are not always cooler limited when overclocking.

If you're not overclocking then don't even think about an aftermarket cooler unless you just like having cool shit, in which case buy whichever one you like the looks of.

1
[deleted]•

I wish NewEgg did shipping! Seriously, I could pay £40 for shipping and it'd still be about £100 cheaper. I have the Athlon X3 that you mentioned and I can say it's awesome! I haven't seen it struggle with any program I have had runnning, so I'd say it was one of the best budget CPU's out there. Also, the OCZ PSU is perfect. I have the 500w version and it's whisper quiet. Thanks for putting this all together as well, I'm getting the GTX 460 in a few weeks as an upgrade from motherboard graphics :)

1
gpunotpsuOP•

I think a big part of the price difference is taxes. The USA is pretty great about have very low or no import duties on most things.

1
[deleted]•

Yeah, VAT went up in January for us brits. Newegg would make a killing if they did worldwide shipping.

1
TheG_Man•

Is this something you would encourage a complete novice to build? I have wanted to build a PC for several years but lacked the funds to do so, but now I have the opportunity to attempt it. Thanks to BaPC I think I've learned enough to at least try, but would like some guidance on how to best start off.

1
gpunotpsuOP•

This is no more difficult to build than any other system. Look at the beginners guide linked in the side bar for good links to videos and such that show you step by step how to assemble everything. You can google almost anything you can think of and find info that will address specific parts or issues. And of course if you get suck you can ask questions here.

If you are patient and willing to do some studying there is nothing especially difficult about building a PC. Just try to understand each step as you go and do some research if you are not sure about something.

1
TheG_Man•

Thanks for your vote of confidence! I was planning to use the same parts you did but I saw that on the PSU, a power cord isn't included. Can I use my current one? Does it make a difference? I was also planning to use these sticks instead of the one's you suggested as they're sold out. Edit: I linked to the wrong pair

1
gpunotpsuOP•

Pretty much any power cord will work. I've never melted one and I don't pay any attention to which goes with what.

The memory you picked will not work as it is for laptops which use a different form factor. Look back at the top for what is there now. I updated the RAM this morning to something that is still in stock. I also changed the power supply to save $17. The prices and availability change fast so if you want this configuration it's best to make up your mind and buy it now if you can. There will be different and possibly better deals in a few days but finding them takes effort.

1
TheG_Man•

All right, thanks for your help! Planning to undertake this soon

1
markovich04•

Any recommendations for 5.1 Audio?

1
gpunotpsuOP•

Analog or digital out?

The motherboard upgrade in the main article has 5.1 audio but no SPDIF connector. Onboard audio quality has improved greatly over the years and most people find it to be of acceptable quality.

1
gpunotpsuOP•

BTW, there is a newer version of this article.

1
TheMoonisBlue•

Does this build have longevity? Would it be wiser to just spend more for a longer lasting comp or to spend less and possibly have to upgrade in the near future? (I'm asking on behalf of MMOs).

1
gpunotpsuOP•

This is a topic of great debate. There is no correct answer as no one knows the future.

My personal opinion is that future proofing is almost always in vain. I buy a computer that does what I want now and when the future comes it deal with it then. Usually a computer will last me a few years. By then things have moved forward so far that if I had spent more in the first place the system would still be obsolete. You're mileage may vary. There are a lot of factors.

If it doesn't cost much extra it's good to opt for a system that you think you might be able to upgrade the CPU on in the future. Then in a couple of years the option of just getting a new CPU and video card instead of replacing everything could look good. I've never actually done that though. I always end up getting a whole new platform because things have changed so much.

In short, I say buy what you need now. When you need more then it will be a different world that you likely would have failed at hedging against.

1
gpunotpsuOP•

I also have a newer version of this same article here.

1