Sister-in-law realized she's not indispensable, stopped complaining
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Posted Apr 1, 2020, 11:38 AM UTC
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Sometimes you gotta show people how irrelevant they really are.
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I would agree with you if it weren't for the fact that she stopped complaining. My theory is that she couldn't handle the fact that we are capable of managing without her.
But more importantly, the lesson for me and my brother is to express our appreciation more frequently, and verbally. It's clear she does all this for us willingly, but perhaps she had been feeling unappreciated.
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Yup, when the green new hire is 2/3 as good at 1/2 the money the bean counters dont take long figuring out which is the more profitable to keep.
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Men cooking and cleaning = Patriarchy! spontaneously menstruates
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The reality is that many men have far better experience these days living as bachelors. They can cook far better than women in some places where men take direct control of kitchen during special occasions.
If push come to shove, men will perform all essential house hold duties better than women and they are well aware of that. So, they will purposefully keep men out of their area of influence.
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None of the household chores except for cooking requires a great deal of intelligence or experience to be competent at.
So it is a job anyone can do. Cooking is the one exception - there are definitely major differences between someone who has been cooking for a year and a grandmother who has 50 years cooking experience.
But that said all the best chefs on the planet are men. LOL
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But that said all the best chefs on the planet are men.
Because creativity. Females (generally speaking) follow recipes like a good girl, males usually go full artist/challenge accepted mode in pretty much anything we set our minds upon that allows it. Cooking is one of those things.
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That is what you call "One year of experience 50 times". Seen it. Fired it.
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Even in Indian Hindu mythology: https://devdutt.com/articles/chef-nala/
https://www.thehindu.com/life-and-style/food/how-ancient-india-cooked/article26139192.ece
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Hahah sweet.
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They can cook far better than women in some places where men take direct control of kitchen during special occasions.
Agreed. Grilling comes to mind.
Another thing to not be dismissed easily is also how men will (generally speaking) just eat what they're given and usually (not necessarily though) say the food was good, because we value the effort, compare it to no food/having to cook ourselves. She, otoh, from my experience, will complain it doesn't taste good (generally speaking, special occasions not included), because she'll likely compare it to the best food she's had so far in her life... (foodpergamy?)
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say the food was good, because we value the effort
You are very right there.
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I'm cooking for myself for about 14 years. Married.
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I hope your wife is paying at least 1/2 of the bills.
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Absolutely. And if she wants something like new furnitures she needs to save it herself. I don't need it, i'm not paying for it. Just like i don't expect her to participate in my hobbies spendings.
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Very interested to know why you're married at all. Kids?
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I'm 40, i live in East Europe. i'm with my wife for 20 years, we were our 1st, she's a good person, kids are great. Of course she's not perfect, i'm not perfect, but e get along ok.
I do what i want, when i want, life's good (wasn't always, that's how i found MGTOW, but that's a longer story).
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Condolences.
And congrats for the cooking! =]
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And congrats for the cooking! =]
If you want something done right.... ;)
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At least my wife know I’m a better cook and the house would look better if I stayed home and she worked.
And I’d be able to rock a French maid outfit doing it 😍
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Freeee your maaaaaaid
and the rest will follow... =]
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The biggest mistake I made in my relationship was trying to be a good house guest and helping to do the housework. She has never touched a dish since and refuses to. The funny part is since I have been the one home most of the time. The place is cleaner than ever and we have gotten rid of a lot of shit she had been hoarding for years. Due to my telling her to go through it or I will get rid of all of it as I was not putting up with it any longer.
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This is the worst outcome of trying for an equal relationship - being taken for granted. Happens on both sides, to be honest. Now that I think about it, maybe that's what this was all about.
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I make better food than most of the women I've been with. Mostly due to being taught by a chef. I could try to put myself in her shoes and imagine that she wasn't feeling appreciated enough. I could imagine this could be provoked by hormones and a bit of self-inflation. People will be happy as long as they're at least not hungry, there's no need for restaurant level food every day. She could probably just have cooked for a day and made frozen meals of lesser quality, but just as effective at eliminating hunger.
I think she learned a good lesson, but to be honest I would just pretend to be very sorry just to eat well and do nothing to achieve it.
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I've yet to have any non professional cook for me and have the whole plate come together proper. Most can get the meat cooked but the veggies are either cold or mush. Or they get the rice right and the chicken is dehydrated.
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Most veggies should just be dropped in boiling water and almost immediately removed when the water boils again. That will boil them, but they will maintain a chewy consistency. They need to be served pronto or they will be cold. I prefer steaming most veggies as that is by far the easiest way to get them right.
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Do you or her husband help with dishes or ask if she needs help? If she says she’s got it, could you maybe do other things such as vacuuming or fixing things around the house so it looks like you two aren’t doing nothing (if that’s the case). Some people take their cooking very seriously and can be crazy in the kitchen. Men or women. Look at Gordon Ramsey.
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Yes, we help her with whatever she asks. But only when she asks. After all, although we are home, we are still working, and I consider this fair. Being a guest, I try to pull my weight by paying for a part of household necessities. Regarding domestic chores, I try to let my brother lead the way when it comes to this dynamic.
My issue is with the unequivocal view of us being slobs, and completely dependent on her, which in my opinion, we proceeded to disabuse her of. However, I shall pass on your advice to my brother. What I understand is that a show of being busy matters. This is the kind of shit I'm glad I passed up.
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I understand. And yes, if you are working then it’s almost like you being in the office so it’s not like you are just watching TV and doing nothing while she’s running around doing whatever.
Currently I live with a married couple in their house so on top of rent, I do buy household necessities (I found us TP and paper towels since they didn’t want to go out) and I will unload the dishwasher and load it when they aren’t around. Since they are both quarantined, they dirty a fuckton of dishes. I wash my dishes that I bring my meals in at work so I rarely dirty dishes here. So for now, I usually let them lead with the dishwashing task.
It is pretty shitty to be called a slob though, especially if it’s not really warranted. Sounds like your brother and his wife need to have a heart to heart conversation if they want to survive this quarantine without getting divorced after everything is back to normal. Hopefully it all works out for all of you.
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In this instance I wouldn’t say her indispensability was even close to disproven.
OP admitted to being slovenly with no indication of change. Took over cooking duties and admitted it didn’t compare to what she provided. Again, no indication of improvement, as the woman had to resume previous duties. Did the woman quit bitching? Maybe temporarily, as her need to feel indispensable was met for the moment and she feels she’s proven her objections to be correct.
All in all, not really a MGTOW moment, just a temporary lull in dependence.
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I'm not sure how she was proved indispensable. Because her food is better? Sure, better food is better, but not indispensable. Simple fact of the matter is, most of us are fine with hot dogs, ramen, hamburger helper, canned corn, what have you. Unless our food is so utterly lacking in nutrition as to kill us, she's not necessary because her food is fancier or even more nutritious.
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I shall take your opinion into consideration, with the view that time will tell whether her change in attitude is temporary.
Regarding our cooking not being as good - I have always maintained that MGTOW lifestyle is not necessarily superior to married life in all aspects, just independent of women. MGTOW to me has been about living without women, even if at a lower standard of quality (which really depends on your values and how you define it)
From that perspective, I think this was definitely a MGTOW moment.
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I still don’t. You changed the symptom....the overt hostility she verbalized to you....but I’m betting she still harbors the exact same hostilities and resentments she had before, albeit silently for the moment. The only thing solved is most likely the decibel level she emits.
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When aren't most women harboring resentment and hostility towards men. Feminists have told them that no matter what reality looks like they are always victimized and enslaved and men are the enemy and overseers. Most listen, and if they're not saying it to your face it's because they fear looking foolish in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, but they still believe it deep down in spite of that evidence and justify to themselves how any situation, even being served hand and foot, is victimizing them.
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Took over cooking duties and admitted it didn’t compare to what she provided. Again, no indication of improvement
You expect instant improvement? You expect improvement? How about things continue the way they were, without her returning to her role and give them a month or three to practice? See what happens?
Besides, if she was not there and bitching passively aggressively, then I'd say things DID improve. Even if the food wasn't as good as before or the kitchen not as tidy as before.
But, ok, that aside. Now that she's returned. Things are still expected to improve in relation to how they were when she was the general in the kitchen before she left, right? Now things can be like a one star more hotel than they were before, you know, improvement. You do not expect instant improvement from the men only, right? Right?
U! U U U!!!! I have one RETARDED IDEA! She realized she was being childish and learned she can communicate her thoughts BETTER so this idiocy doesn't happen like that again, right? The way people communicate within the household will now get a level up. Improvement, no? Oh, right...
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With women my default position is that I expect no improvement at all. I expect a developed level of maturity or performance prior to my entry into a scenario or I exit the same way I came into it. And I’m not willing to offer myself up as an agent of change with regard to them. With me, I expect myself to find the means to be or remain independent and not have to suffer the false outrage of a woman in the first place. In either event I don’t engage in chest-thumping over non-existent victory or unacceptable status quo. If was in that environment long enough to detect any level of dissatisfaction (hers or mine) I would have considered myself to have been exposed to it too long already. Your story is one of realizing dissatisfaction, taking incomplete steps to solve it, then ceding the ground you conquered back to the status quo.
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Good for you.
Well, my story might sound like dissatisfaction, but I'm doing ok the last, 10+ years? Life is good. Tnx for the concern, tho, appreciated.
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Moral of the story, women just like to complain
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I cook my own food, and wash my own plates and reuse them for the next meal. Learn to be independent. It isn't hard to cook a steak in a pan and cut up some vegetables.
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All that needless drama is why I'm glad my house is empty! Plus everyone here is right... an hour of cleaning every 2 days for me, if that.
Even among non red pilled forums you sometimes get a discussion about which public restrooms are more filthy and the answer is always the same each time...
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Not being a niceguy, but from this I can imagine that you are in an indian household and a few words of appreciation to your bhabi would have made her happy! Just a small comment saying, the food is awesome, thanks for the meal. Arent we all supposed to do that?
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Ha bhai, that was definitely my lesson from this experience.
Although what I wanted to point out in a nutshell was - woman thinks we'll die without her, no we won't (but woman definitely makes life better I'll give her that and that's where my appreciation stems from)
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I totally accept it, but i am also feeling if we are the ones making them feel that way. For instance, if we gave feedback and also took care of ourself, Im sure they would think that way. In fact there are a lot of women simps too, i dont know to identify them, but if there are male simps, there should be female simps too.
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Understandable. Quit messing around in her kitchen. Quit messing around in MY kitchen. I ducking hate it if stuff is misplaced in my kitchen.
Not your home, not your castle. Just make yourself useful. Vacuum. Clean shit.
Stay away from the kitchen. That's her place obviously.
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If you ever played with LEGO, then you already know how to cook. Just follow the instructions. It's super easy.
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I feel like there's a lesson to be learnt here
Learn to cook better tasting food?
but all I can think of is that we failed some sort of shit test
A females' existence in itself is a shit test. Some manage to continue testing even after they're dead. If there is no shit test, can a female even exist?
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Weird. Most of the good cooks I know are guys. But yeah she ought to be pleased about her situation.
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I can maintain the house with about an hour of cleaning every couple of days. I put everything back in its place as I use it. When i lived with a chick, the house was always a mess. Now with kids, it can be helpful to have a partner if you're both effective and on the same page with the kids. As far as just playing house with a live in GF? No way, I'm better off living alone.
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Tbh some women really are amazing. The willpower and consistency is unbeatable. And can only develop through internal negotiations and conflicts as the one you described here
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What a truly horrible woman. In other words, average.
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The housework that my ex wife claimed was a day of work took maybe 2 hours for an adult. As a single father of 3 elementary aged kids that were with me 2/3 of the time, ny house got CLEANER after she moved out. I was able to set standards of behavior and house maintenance, without the bad example.
Yeah, I know plenty of men who have higher standards of cooking, cleanliness, hygiene and discipline than your average woman. And that is a Red Pill in itself, when you think about what society thinks men are generally like.
However, I must admit I myself do fall into the stereotype. Which is why technology has been an incredible blessing for me, by greatly reducing the efforts required for domestic work.
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Pot and beer won't fix you. They'll wreck you.
Live and let live
Same here. I can maintain the house with about an hour of cleaning every couple of days. I put everything back in its place as I use it. When i lived with a chick, the house was always a mess. Now with kids, it can be helpful to have a partner if you're both effective and on the same page with the kids. As far as just playing house with a live in GF? No way, I'm better off living alone.
That’s funny shit to know there are others out there. I feel for you guys too just that misery loves company and had to laugh
Must be isolated and Thought was the ex gf was only one. Took 45-60 min to sweep and vacuum, 2-3 hrs to mop, stop for a snack, check e-mail, chat on Facebook like a 10 yo Kid. Takes me 40 min to do same shit she did, didn’t look at phone, swept rather that slow as turtle pushing a dust mop. Let alone make salad or cook something basic that took literally hours
So glad to just do my own thing
Same here. I can maintain the house with about an hour of cleaning every couple of days. I put everything back in its place as I use it. When i lived with a chick, the house was always a mess. Now with kids, it can be helpful to have a partner if you're both effective and on the same page with the kids. As far as just playing house with a live in GF? No way, I'm better off living alone.
Same here. I can maintain the house with about an hour of cleaning every couple of days. I put everything back in its place as I use it. When i lived with a chick, the house was always a mess. Now with kids, it can be helpful to have a partner if you're both effective and on the same page with the kids. As far as just playing house with a live in GF? No way, I'm better off living alone.
Same here. I can maintain the house with about an hour of cleaning every couple of days. I put everything back in its place as I use it. When i lived with a chick, the house was always a mess. Now with kids, it can be helpful to have a partner if you're both effective and on the same page with the kids. As far as just playing house with a live in GF? No way, I'm better off living alone.