Will Hines & Chris Gethard's long discussion on improv & UCB

Wild that this post has so many upvotes, but no comments. Hope y'all don't mind me starting the discussion.

I finished all three hours last night. What fascinated me to the most was hearing how two staples of the UCB community articulated the same frustrations that even 101-ers have about improv. Here are the main problems that I was able to glean:

• Too many rules in improv - And they don't mean rules as in say "yes, and", don't deny, commit, stay on game, etc. They mean rules as in structure, order, and gate-keeping. At any institution/theatre, you have to follow the rules: 101, 201, 301, 401, audition, coach, notes, weekly shows, etc. The community has become too commercialized and the departure from counter-culture has made it cheesy and not fun. Gethard cites this as the reason he decided to leave improv.
  • Having been part of a system for so long, I never realized that an artform should NOT have this many rules and hurdles. Improv was most fun during my first year because it was about discovery and exploration. Somewhere between finishing classes and starting an indie team, that all changed. You pick a coach, a format, and an opening. Then you just drill the form and stress out over pulling premises, initiations, and group mind. The discovery and exploration stops and it just becomes an exercise in discipline.
• The community is bloated with seniors - This has more to do with seniority than age. At some point, you've done improv so long that you don't get notes. Hines jokingly remarked that nobody in LA dares to note to his team, "The Smokes." So they've stopped or at least slowed their growth and therefore the art form stops growing.
  • Meanwhile, these senior improvisers don't ever "move on." In the old days, performers would get hired as actors/writers/teachers and stop performing. But both have noticed that there are a lot of jaded veterans occupying weekly slots and they have lowered the ceiling at UCB by plateauing and performing the same shows week after week, year after year. Which brings me to the last problem...
• No one is impressed with improv anymore - Gethard and Hines both reminisced about the first time they saw improv. It was game-changing and awe-inspiring to watch ASSSSSSCAT perform every week. Not only did they give improvisers something to aspire to, it was something cool they could share with their friends and family; it was cool! Imagine seeing a show that was so good, you ran to your class/team saying "have you guys seen _____ yet?! We gotta go this weekend. I wanna be just like them!!!"
  • But again, because the bar has been lowered and shows are aplenty, improv has become miss-able. It's become a meme on this sub on how easy it is to clear a room with an improv show. They both also admit that Harold night has become hit-or-miss; everyone is just doing an impression of last cycle's Harold teams. Which is fine for a budding performers, but not something that you can support an entire community on. They agreed that the only way to reinvigorate improv is with a show that is so undeniably good that every improviser is forced to go back to the drawing board and rethink their format/curriculum. But they concluded that the first two problems are likely preventing that.

Anyway, just wanted to share what I learned from this interview. I'm really glad that they took this time to evaluate the state of improv and share their knowledge and experience. Although they were somewhat pessimistic, it makes me hopeful. They have outlined the problems which will give the future generation of improviser a guideline on where to take improv in the future.

One thing I really liked is that they talked about feeling like a real part of the community super early on. I've never gone to UCB and felt welcome^1. But, when I walked into one of the non-major NYC theaters (it closed in 2017), the guy teching made a point to come up to me and introduce himself. The teachers in my level 1 were friendly outside of class.

How would UCB do that at the size it was at? I don't know. But I really appreciate that Gethard and Hines acknowledged that the magic of 2004 is not there anymore.

[1] I've never felt unwelcome at UCB, but I've very rarely felt like part of the club -- and then, more through osmosis. I forget who Gethard said came to his 101 show, but that doesn't happen now. The rare times I felt like a part of UCB, it was not because Connor Ratliff came to my level 1 show (why would he?), but because I was performing at UCB. The hallowed halls of Chelsea made me feel like a part of it. And that's cool, but it's shallow, fleeting, and ultimately does not help develop skill.

Finally some content I can get behind!

Speaking to Hines and Gethard wondering why so many great comics came from the same place it’s like The Last Dance doc. You have one person that pushes harder than anyone and has had great success and proved themselves pushing all of those following them and holding them to certain standards and all ships rise. It’s like asking if Scottie Pippen would have been as good if he never played with Jordan and the answer is no. You hold others accountable and then they hold you accountable and everyone gets better together.

UCB restarting is possibly when old bands do an acoustic record.