Regarding MGTOW who are married
I've noticed a handful of occurrences where married men on this sub were being questioned about being MGTOW. Although I'm happy to note that such questions were more in the form of mild curiosity than an attempt of what would be considered gatekeeping, their endorsement of MGTOW did pique my curiosity.
To be honest, and I'm sure I'm not the only one, I considered all married men to be "Blue Pilled cucks". Men usually discover the Red Pill via firsthand or secondhand experience, which usually involves divorce rape or adultery. So you can imagine the extent of my surprise at discovering married men here (as in still married).
However, the wisdom in their words has left me no doubt of the potential value they can bring to us. Which only left me wondering what their perspective was. Isn't a married MGTOW an oxymoron? What could possibly cause a man that's married to view our philosophy - for lack of a better word - as anything other than misogyny?
During this process, I realized that perhaps being married by itself might be cause enough to Red Pill a man i.e. the experiences during. Also, a hypothetical scenario I came up with was what if a man stumbled across the Red Pill only after marriage? What is he to do, dissolve the marriage in order to go his own way? Perhaps there's nothing "wrong" with the marriage, so to speak, but he's now just aware of the risks he has taken.
Point is, I have managed to justify to myself - and hopefully others as well - how perhaps MGTOW and marriage can coexist. I'd greatly appreciate if the married gentlemen could offer their perspectives to enhance my understanding of the situation. Any maybe we can use this as a forum to gain an understanding of their situation as well.
Posted May 4, 2020, 4:47 PM UTC
A married MGTOW is an oxymoron but yes as paradoxical as it sounds the MGTOW philosophy can coexist with marriage.
By the time I discovered Sandman on Youtube like in 2017? I had already been married for like 6 years or so. When I was listening to Red Pill content I didn't "dismiss" it because I was married, I accepted it as the most likely outcome of most relationships. You see when you are a married man women treat you differently so you get to see a side of female nature single men don't see. On the "couples dates" you get to witness first hand the unrealistic standards of women along with the mini "competitions" they have to prove they have the better relationship. If modern day relationships are like watching sinking ships from the outside then being married is like watching the ship sink from the inside. You see people in their "honeymoon phase" and you know that it's highly likely the way you argue with your wife in the car and "put on a happy face" when you arrive at your destination that other couples are doing that as well.
The reason I go married young was because, like many, I thought I found "the one" Even as a senior in high school I seen majority of women just weren't worth the effort. I always thought it was stupid how guys would brag about all the women they had sex with while conveniently forgetting the price they were paying with their time, money and effort. Even then before red pill content I was talking about how it was unfair guys had to pay for dates and all he got in exchange was a few seconds to bust nut. I remember people used to give me shit because I only had 3 girlfriends before I got married and in my head I was happy I didn't waste a bunch of time and money on impressing women/relationships that went nowhere. As a married man I stopped giving women (in general) attention to focus on a single woman. This freed up my time quite a bit...
...it's just I naively reinvested that time into my marriage instead of myself. Well that is until I discovered my wife was cheating on me (Even when you give them everything they claim to want, it's never enough for women...go figure lol) in which case I gained my "freedom." I figured if my wife was not holding up her end of the bargain with the marriage then why should I? I started to focus on myself more and her less. I was doing this LONG before I discovered Sandman's videos along with MGTOW and/or Red Pill content. The more videos I looked at just further confirmed what I suspected to be the case but was too ignorant of due to only having 3 girlfriends in my life prior to marriage. I seen I was sold a pack of lies by society about what marriage was. I saw it was a raw deal for men I just wasn't aware of how bad it was. That's why I kept watching the videos seeking to hear to stories of other men which lead to hearing utter nightmare scenarios. Some of which made me feel better about my marriage situation.
Yes I am married so it's too late for "nocohabition" and "no marriage" aspects of MGTOW but I still follow what I can from the MGTOW philosophy. The self improvement, the self investment, etc. Even when I was at my lowest point(s) and completely justified to blame my wife for actively fucking me over, I chose to focus on improving the things within my control and my quality of life got better. Like I'm genuinely happy and have been for a long time. I feel like after discovering MGTOW and/or Red Pill I was more "focused" in what my goals in life actually were so I could take tangible practical steps to reach my goals. This is all independent of my marriage.
Yes I have a wife. Yes she has basic bitch tendencies and is fully capable of performing the worst aspects of female nature. I'm not so naive to believe I'm "safe" by any means. I can become a divorce statistic at any day on my wife's whim. If that happens I'm not going to be in any rush to get into a relationship with a woman nor get married again. I know what's up now. As far as my marriage goes I am using the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy. The thing is I don't kiss my wife's ass and I hold her accountable for her actions. Contrary to popular belief I still have my spine and don't let my wife walk all over me. Hell I constantly call my wife out on her bullshit. When I tell people this they think I am lying. There are even women who try to put "shackles" on me telling me how they wouldn't let their boyfriend/husband do what I do and wanting to talk to my wife to hear what she thinks of what I am doing. This happened when I was planning to go to Thailand, alone, for 2 weeks to train. I told my wife I was going and that was that. I asked what she thought about it and she said, "I know you don't really care what I think and will do what you want to do anyway. I know how much this means to you. I'm happy for you because you are living your dream." That's just how I have it in my marriage which is how I am able to follow the MGTOW philosophy while married.
I have my freedom. With said freedom I choose to be in this marriage because I am a man of my word and I made a vow before the God I believe in. MGTOW is "men going their own way" and this is the way I've chosen. If my wife wants to walk beside me then I will allow it if she follows my rules and/or doesn't become too much of a liability. If my wife starts doing some outrageous shit like I've heard/read then I'm going to drop her faster than a fat person who sits down too fast LMAO Unlike in my "Blue Pill" days my wife is not at the core of my happiness. It took trying (and ultimately failing) to make my wife happy to realize that it is ultimately me who is 100% responsible of my own happiness in life. Whether my wife chooses to stay in this marriage or not doesn't change that fact so I'm chillin.
Appreciate the detailed response. This is exactly how I thought it would even be possible for married men to even support the MGTOW concept.
It's the recognition that yes, one is trapped but might as well accept that fate and get acquainted with what happens when the guillotine finally falls (if).
I'm glad you found your own unique happiness.
However, it sounds like your "marriage" is only in name, and not what it's actually intended to describe: a happy, loving, and commited relationship. It sounds like you're creating a bubble around yourself to protect your own ego from judgement, maybe your fellow churchmates? Did you really find your own inner peace/way or did you only find your safe, little corner?
MGTOW and red pill philosophy, in general, sounds like a defense mechanism developed by victims of trauma via first or second hand experience; you experienced it first hand and then looked up video after video of others going through similar trauma, cementing the idea that relationships and marriage are "risky" or "dangerous". It sounds like you've chosen to protect yourself by never trying again, i.e you could've realized that your wife's behavior has nothing to do with you or how much time and energy you invested in the relationship, but instead, you chose to shut down and never give relationships a chance again.
I hope I'm not being too harsh.
No you are not being to harsh, you are being critical which is more than fair.
I disagree. It's clear as day a marriage is a business deal with both the husband and wife being expected to uphold their contract. The evidence for this is in the wedding vows themselves:
"I take you to be my (husband/wife); to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, in joy and in sorrow, to love and to cherish, and to be faithful to you alone, as long as we both shall live."
...as such I would say my marriage is, now, what marriage was intended to be. A business arrangement with terms and conditions to be upheld. I'd argue the vast majority of people's marriages are "marriages" only in name. Just looking at what you believe intended purpose of marriage (happy, loving, and committed relationship.) describes it all. The first things to come to your mind, happy and loving, are both intangible things that cannot be objectively measured. It's not surprising you mentioned these two first because these two are pushed the most when it comes to the media by books, tv shows, movies, etc. which are made with women in mind because women are the primary consumers of such content. However when you read marriage vows both love and happiness comes LAST. What comes before it?
"to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health,"
The thing you mentioned last (commitment) is what is mentioned first in the vows before both love and happiness. Commitment is also something that can be objectively measured unlike the other 2 you mentioned. Without commitment as the foundation the marriage will definitely be an uphill battle. If you look up the history of marriage you will discover people in the past used to treat marriage as a business deal. You had someone commit to you and you had to learn to be happy with them and learn to love them. Divorces didn't happen as often but when they did someone was at "fault" essentially breaching their contract. As such the divorce rate was significantly lower because you could NOT just be like "oh I'm not happy anymore" or "oh I just feel out of love." All that stuff came about in the 1960's or 1970's when people started marrying for "love." It's not surprising that once love was the "foundation" of getting married the divorce rate started to increase and further increased when "no fault divorces" were introduced. What you are describing is the modern day version of marriage which is broken on a fundamental level. Want to know a significant reason why the divorce rate is increasing while the marriage rates are decreasing? It's lack of commitment from women (in general) After all 8 out of 10 divorces are initiated by who? spoiler alert Women.
MGTOW and red pill philosophy, in general, is a response to learning the game has changed in romantic relationships. Women are no longer "women" because they have been coddled by feminist indoctrination via the education system. According to feminism women are the smartest, women are the strongest, women are the bravest, etc. and most importantly anyone who disagrees is sexist. Feminism bends over backwards to prevent women from failing as such they never grow as individuals. All the participation trophies go to their heads leading to an inflated ego with a deep rooted sense of entitlement.
You want to know what would cause fatal damage the MGTOWs, Red Pill and the manospehre in general? If society held women (in general) responsible for their actions like men (in general). Here are some realistic examples:
-Initiating divorce forfeits the possibility of receiving alimony and/or child support (Eliminates divorce rape)
-Remove "no fault" divorce. Those proven at fault for breaching the marriage contract forfeit the spouse's benefits along with the possibility of alimony and/or child support (Reduces monetary incentives of divorce)
-Mandatory paternity tests at birth (Eliminates paternity fraud)
-A fixed limit on maximum amout child support can be received (Reduces incentives of predatory practices by women to "trap" men)
-Women who make rape accusations that are proven false in the court of law have to serve the time the accused would have served (Reduces False rape accusations)
If these simple changes were put into law the attitudes and behavior of women (in general) would change because women could no longer bypass men and rely on big daddy government to take care of them. Women would be more conservative with their actions due to these consequences and there would be less need for MGTOW and/or Red Pill as a result. Of course we know feminists would never allow such laws to be made because they would lose power and influence. Modern day relationships are pretty much like having a two person bicycle with one person (men) doing all the pedaling while the other person (women) complain about not going fast enough while not pedaling at all. MGTOW and/or red pill philosophy is avoiding victim hood by not investing in a two person bicycle in the first place if you already know you will be the only one pedaling.