Post your questions, reviews of fabrics, design plans, and projects that you don't feel warrant their own post!
(Pls keep your trading/selling/gifting on our monthly swap thread, thanks!).
Posted May 4, 2020, 11:00 PM UTC
Just a quick shout out to RockyWoods. First time doing business with them and I realized I forgot an item on my order. Called in, immediately talked to a live person, (Dustin I believe?) who added the items to my order without any issue. He also let me know some of the zippers I'd ordered were on backorder, and adjusted the rest of the shipment accordingly right then and there.
My only other shipping has been through RBTR (who I've also had nothing but good experiences with).
Yeah they have an interesting mix of stuff that is sometimes hard to find. Occasionally their prices are just insane high though.
Similarly, don't forget to check owfinc.
I just put in an order with therainshed and anytime you think about buying from Rocky definitely check them first. When they put an item on sale they're usually really deep discounts. Great place to pick up fabric for prototypes but sometimes even premium fabric is dirt cheap. Like $.99/yd cheap. Shipping is steep though!
Rbtr does a fabulous job with list prices and shipping but keeps a very focused product line (commendably) so there are a lot of things, sometimes far superior things, they don't carry.
u/jsprag44 recently posted a PDF military manual(Post: https://www.reddit.com/r/myog/comments/goj7yo/sew_as_if_your_life_depends_on_it/) with ~110 pages of material on industrial sewing, fabric types, care, selection, machine maintenance, types, upkeep, stitches, and a whole bunch of other stuff. I figured either the PDF itself or portions thereof would make a good addition to the wiki, and u/noemazor suggested it would be a good idea to gauge interest in it, before adding it. Thoughts? It seems like there's some interesting information there, written for a complete novice, and that might help cover some commonly asked questions.
If your willing to take on the task of working with all that info, I'd be more than happy to have it available, as I'm sure many others would be too.
So, Apex/down hybrid quilts are nothing new or special, but I was thinking if it would actually make a lot of sense from a cheap/lazy MYOG perspective. Basically, a down quilt with sewn-through baffles, with a layer of Apex and an outer shell on top? The idea being that sewn-through baffles are easy to sew, and the layer of Apex on top would minimize the amount of heat lost through the sewn-through seams and take on the dew point if you shoot for, say, 20F total limit temp.
Considering that the (rather large) Massdrop quilt is good for 40F with 300g of down and sewn-through baffles, and Cumulus' 150 quilt is good for 40F with 150g of down and H-baffles, I guess the "Apex-compensated" amount for 40F would be no more than 200 grams? Add ~20F of warmth and ~230g of weight from 67g Apex and a top shell and you'd get a 20F hybrid for around 700g (25oz). The middle fabric (for baffles) probably doesn't have to be downproof so I could just use a cheap Ali fabric, so this would save me 70€ (or 40%) of the total cost compared to a fully down quilt. Only 30€ more than a fully Apex quilt, and pack quite a bit better and save a few ounces of weight. But these are just rough estimations (especially compensating the sewn-through baffle) so IDK if it's actually worth it
E: Okay, I realized Nunatak gave exact specs for the Nebula quilt. 260g of down properly baffled and 2.2oz Apex for 25F, so I guess I'm way too optimistic, even if the Nunatak temp is closer to the comfort temp rather than the limit
Yes, there is potential for heat loss but keep in mind that air is still being trapped by the baffles, so how much potential heat is actually being lost? The key word here is potential, as in what is the difference in heat retention between a quilt with sewn-through baffles and one without? I personally prefer sewn-through as the difference in comfort is minimal if even noticed at all. Then again, I am not winter camping in sub-zero temps.
This hybrid quilt would certainly be cheaper than all down of the same temp rating, then again, temp ratings between apex and down are ridiculous when . Meaning: if you built the hybrid quilt and then built a down quilt of the same temp rating, the down quilt will be significantly lighter. As such, you will only need to add a small handful more down by weight to achieve the same temp rating.
The idea behind the hybrid quilt is moisture management. It certainly will not be easier to construct.
The way I described it would definitely be easier to construct. There's a significant difference between sewn-through and proper baffles for freezing temps, and the idea is that the Apex could "wrap around" the baffle, minimizing this difference and making up for the difference between down and Apex. It probably doesn't work quite like I estimated, but there's still more to it than just the traditional moisture management
I'd love some input about a part of my tent design. I'm making a hexamid style hybrid single walled tent. Now with the aim being as light as possible it is relatively small and the most annoying thing about a small tent for me is the lack of width when you are sitting upright to change clothes for example. So to create more room I'd like to connect the inner like this: https://imgur.com/xYGHd81
So the inner is connected to the point where the storm doors attach and not at the top. But that means the trekking pole will be inside the inner. Now the question I've got is: what do you think is the best way to accommodate the point of the trekking pole at the bottom? At this point I'm thinking of making a 'holder' on the outside of the bathtub from 210D HDPE Gridstop with an elastic that wraps around the pole to close it off, like this: https://imgur.com/TPtPw2l . That way the point can still 'dig' into the ground but you don't have the risk of mosquitos and midges getting in. But I'm not convinced yet that this is the way to go.
What would you do?
The original Hexamid Solo had the pole inside and just used a big eyelet in the floor fabric to accommodate the pole tip. If you sized it right there wouldn’t be any gap to let bugs in, but you will be limiting yourself to just one pole position.
In that case wouldn't you have a 'potential' hole in your floor? Or does that seal it more than enough? I mean, it isn't a raft...
Yeah, it wouldn’t be fully watertight. I think that would only matter if you frequently camp in hard-packed low-lying sites and have to worry about puddling.
You could maybe add some sort of rubber gasket or O-ring to fix that.
Does anyone know of a pattern that would make a hydration pack similar to an older design Camelbak MULE?
I've got one that I can look at, but I'm still at the stage where using a pattern is a better idea than working it out from first principles.
Tried to make apex socks using the green pepper 504 pattern designed for polar fabrics. Ended up with a shark instead.
APEX Shark https://imgur.com/a/dMD2UkN
Looks like a character from sifl and olly.
Well done.
I really like how much fun you’re having with this. Thank you for the laughs!
Can you put them on?
No, unfortunately. The pattern relies on the stretch of the fabric and even sizing up to a 13 (I'm an 11) does nothing to help. The pattern is for uninsulated socks so I will need to size up each next time. I was aware of it going in but wanted to try it regardless. I'll switch up the pattern next time or super size up.
Hilarious
AdventurExpert has a bunch of cool new stuff, including sternum piping clips and adjustable slik clips which many seem to be after 👌
Awesome! They are a great source, even for those of us in the US. Price is the same or better buying from them, including shipping, than buying here. Shipping is very fast, too.
Are you guys finding that VAT is taken off when you are checking out (in the US)? There's a note on the site about that, which would make the prices significantly better than most places.
Yes, they take it off for US customers. The owners is a hiker and gear maker (@gramxpert on IG). He is super responsive to questions. I love my American suppliers for fabrics. But for hardware, webbing, and binding, this place is hard to beat!
I want to make an underquilt and my current one that I enjoy is just a giant rectangle, but is there any reason I shouldn't make my new one lemon shaped like the hammock? I feel like this would reduce my need for needing to cinch the ends? Pic for reference
If a shaped underquilt is recommended, how would I calculate center and end widths for the most functionality? Thanks in advance for any help this community can offer. :)
trying to figure out how to sew a pouch with a gusseted bottom. i have figure out how to do it with the seams faced out but can quite figure out how to do it without having the seams on the outside, like this: https://imgur.com/a/xHPbSM4
This is going to be a heat sealed pouch. Likely not possible with your fabric. Not to be flippant, but if you have sewed that design you could just turn it inside out. I imagine that is as close as you can get without using a heat sealable fabric.
Caprisuns are just a polyethylene laminated foil. You can cut and reseal them with an iron or hair straightener. Should be possible with mylar as well but I've never tried and don't know the temperature you'd need to reach to seal it.
I know that it is a heat sealed pouch.. was just using it as an example for the style of gusset i would like to make. it doesnt need to look exactly like a heat sealed pouch
If you think of the heat sealing as the seam, this design would have the seam on the outside. If you want the same design without the seam, sew the pouch just as the picture (seams out like you have done) then flip it inside out and press it. It won't look exactly the same, but will be pretty close.
For those with Singer 400/403/500/503: have you ever tried centralizing the needle bar? I believe my needle is way too close to the front (the operator), which is causing my thread to shred against the throat plate. I found the steps to centralize the needle bar in the service manual, but I'm having trouble understanding it, especially what it means by "turning the eccentric with a spanner wrench".
Anyone who has experience with this and can help me will be the savior of my long weekend. Thank you!
So I went looking on my 500a and H3 looks like a large flathead from the top but is probably an eccentric mount on the inside. You have to take off the top and side cover to see it. It also looks like you need to remove the presser foot dial to access set screw g3. Don't worry about a spanner wrench, just try a large flathead to adjust it. Mine's working perfectly or I'd mess with the adjustment to try it out. Let me know if that helps
Thanks! It seems like I might have been doing the right thing, but it might just not adjust enough (pic). I'll try playing around with it some more...
So I‘m trying to optimise my new backpack design and started to look at shoulder straps more closely. I think there is a case for arguing that 3D Spacer Mesh is utterly useless.
So the big question. What‘s the alternative? Simply go for the same fabric as the top of the strap (like DxG, Cordura, x-Pac etc) or is there a better choice that provides more next to skin comfort and maybe has minimal elasticity to not feel too rigid (which is the only benefit of 3D mesh imo). Maybe some kind of spandex?
Would love some input and a bit discussion.
Several companies use fabrics not far off from the typical "durable stretch woven" instead of 3D mesh. I've heard several people (somewhat) in the industry say 3D mesh is only used cause people associate the mesh look with breathability.
I think using a stretch woven is a better way in general, but I wouldn't dismiss spacer mesh completely. For lighter loads, especially with a hip belt, I think most foams are simply too compression resistant for shoulders straps. I feel like the usual 10mm Evazote compresses maybe 2-3 millimeters in use. Using thicker spacer mesh (6-9 mm) and a only a few millimeters of foam feels a lot softer and comfortable, IMO. With 10mm spacer mesh, I think you could forego the foam entirely and have breathable, comfier straps. Unfortunately, spacer mesh is heavy, usually at least 100gsm per mm of thickness. Not that 10mm of EV50 is particularly light either at 500gsm, so it only makes a difference of maybe 40 grams for the average straps. Or, you could find foam that is less compression resistant than Evazote - I've yet to find some that would still be somewhat resilient.
Spacer mesh is highly breathable. It only loses its breathability when combined with solid foam and/or a solid top or outer fabric. Spacer mesh also traps air, which may be warmed by radiant heat.
For shoulder straps and back padding I like the 'stretch woven' as you mention. Then again, I live in an area that has very hot and humid summers and find the spacer mesh preferable because it gives sweat a place to go.
For lumbar pads and hip belts, I prefer a textured plain weave (non-ripstop) fabric such as Cordura or packcloth as it is more grippy.
Yes, good point. I was just thinking when you forego the 3D mesh it's also a psychological aspect of feeling like your straps are less breathable. Even though they aren't to begin with. I can totally see how market research would probably confirm that.
I agree "stretch woven" seems the more appropriate choice in most cases. I was inspecting a small Black Diamond climbing pack of a friend recently and it had some kind of stretch woven and it felt much nicer on the skin and more useful with the foam inside. What would be a good stretch woven to consider using? Can you maybe link to something you'd use? Not too familiar with that fabric type as I haven't had the need before.
Regarding your point on compressibility of the 10mm Evazote for instance. Why would you want more compressibility? Does the 6-7mm part of the foam that doesn't compress compromise comfort? Isn't thicker foam also a tool to keep the longevity of straps?
I can totally see how maybe 4mm foam with 6mm spacer could be more comfortable. But I think when you get to loads of maybe 20-25lbs on a long carry with a frameless/no hip belt pack 10mm foam might be more useful and load bearing.
Thanks for your input btw! It's a topic I've never thought about much because most/all cottages use spacer for of it's aesthetic, availability, faux-breathability(in foam straps). But when you move outside that realm a lot of different styles start to pop up that make much more sense like the stretch woven for instance.
I'd say most stretch wovens around 150-250gsm (or more if you're not super picky about the weight) with less than 10% elastane should do, but I haven't tried that construction myself so I'm only guessing based on what I've seen in two commercial packs.
Yeah, heaviest frameless/beltless carries are definitely better off with foam rather than spacer mesh, but for 5-15lbs I think a fully spacer mesh construction could be better. It's not that the uncompressed foam harms anything, but it just indicates that it's not doing a great job distributing load, you know? I might be exaggerating here cause it's not like you get particularly sore shoulders at those weights anyway.
Ant tips on sewing Climashield Apex , specifically looking to mitigate issues of the Climashield stretching during sewing.
When I've been working with it, it seems to stretch quite a lot especially when compared to the ripstop I'm work with. When finished it pulls the whole project (quilt) into a strange shape.
The projects are still usable, just not aesthetically pleasing or all that easy to work with while sewing. I end up having to trim excess Climashield as I go, creating some weird lines.
Any tips?
Pin or clip the perimeter of the quilt every 6” or so before you start sewing.
Sew with the Apex down toward the feed dogs. This is really important. Whenever you’re sewing a stretchy material with a non stretchy material, put the stretchy side toward the feed dogs.
You can use your left hand to push the ripstop down gently into the Apex to keep the material moving together.
A Singer EvenFeed foot (or something similar) helps a lot too.
Thank you!
This is really good advice. ALSO - use tissue paper under the Apex a la the Backcountry banter tutorial. It makes a tremendous difference with Apex and also helps with other ultralight fabrics if they give you trouble.
Any thoughts on the Juki HZL-27z . I’m looking to get a decent starter level machine for my gf and I. Because of mask making the options out there are super limited right now. Very little left in stock anywhere, and very little available 2nd hand. To be honest I wasn’t looking to spend more than like 120, but this seems the best deal on something decent that’s actually in stock so if you folks approve or have any suggestions I’d be all ears. She wants to use it for quilting and clothing and Id like to do some myog hiking gear... mostly lighter stuff like tarps, bivies, etc. I didn’t wanna be the guy who posted another “what machine should I get?” thread. Thx
Juki makes quality products. I bet that machine would do everything you need it to do. As long as you aren't trying to sew anything super thick like a pack shoulder strap with foam and spacer mesh, that machine should do most everything for you.
My standard recommendation for a first machine is the Singer Heavy Duty (4423 I think). Here's my youtube video on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HpRkjxjWI8M
But you're right. Limited stock has made the prices go crazy on Amazon. Another option would be to go to a Walmart. They usually stock the HD and a few other machines about the same level price wise. Their prices won't be crazy, I wouldn't think.
Another option is to look for a local sewing machine shop. We have a ton here in the Denver area. They are most likely an "essential" business and would appreciate your financial support. I actually just bought a new machine after going in the store to try it out, like two weeks ago.
If you get it, do a review for us!
I’m so glad you posted that cause I was about to pull the trigger on it and amazon linked me to the singer 4423 and it was marked down to the same price as the juki so I bought that one instead. I feel much more reassured now that I did the right thing haha. Thanks for the video!
Ayye very nice!
Any ideas where to get bike pannier attachment clip thingies? The ones that clip in to the upper rack tube with quick release. My regular MYOG stores don't have these in stock.
If you have a 3d printer or know someone with one, you can try 3d printing some
That is probably more expensive than just buying. And it is a quite complex design.
First post on Reddit so forgive me if I am replying in the wrong place. I use Arkel brand panniers. Their proprietary attachment system is amazing and available on it's own through their website. Bonus points because they are Canadian (so am I) and last I checked most of their stuff was still made domestically. https://www.arkel-od.com/cam-lock-hook-kit-pair
Thank you for your reply. That seems to be a bit different from the other systems I've seen. It would be nice to try these, but I'm in Europe and this seems to cost 40€ per system.
That’s fair. They aren’t cheap but they are bombproof and work really nicely. What exactly are you looking for? More like the Ortliebs?
Yeah that is what I'm familiar with. And it seems to be relatively lightweight. My plan is to make a lightweight and durable panniers using dimension polyant fabrics.
I have broad shoulders and I've always wanted a daypack that is wider than it is tall.
Is there a good reason bags aren't made this way?
I suspect there's a number of factors at play.
Most people do not have backs that are as wide as they are long. Therefore, a pack that was wider than it was long would not fit most people well at all. As such, there is no commercial driver to produce one.
Any bag that was wider than it was long would necessarily be either very small, or ineffective for some or more of the reasons below. It should be noted that Saddleback Leather (and probably others) make a briefcase that you can convert into a backpack. I suspect that if you have a very wide back, you probably have relatively large arms, and so will probably find that the strap fit is not ideal.
The shoulder strap insertion points would either be too close together vertically, or the bag would have to be significantly wider than the shoulder span (with normal strap spacing), in order to maintain the aspect ratio that you propose. This would impact massively on arm movement. A very wide bag would also sag and bounce; this is inefficient.
The volume of any such pack is limited. Unless it extends very wide, in which case, you have problems of arm movement, or bashing into people and things on the trail, or extends very far back, in which case a rotational force puts a lot of strain on the front of the shoulders, and makes the wearer unstable. It would probably also tire your abdominal muscles more, and give you lower back discomfort, or possibly even injury.
The reason that packs are narrow and go up (generally a 100 litre pack isn't that much bigger than a 70 litre pack in cross-section, but it is significantly taller) is that it helps to direct the load down in a straight vetical line, rather than elicit a rotational force on the wearer. For framed packs with hip belts, this also helps take the load off the shoulder straps, and direct it through the pelvis. Making the column taller has only marginal increases in rotational force, whereas making it wider or deeper greatly increases these lever forces.
My dog is in serious need of some new beds. Figured this would be some good practice! I'm going to make 3-4, and he's a large boi. What fabric would you all recommend, wanting something heavy duty and tear resistant for his claws. I'm not necessarily need something chew proof.
As for the foam I was going to use an old memory foam mattress topper, but my SO is hesitant. Any ideas for something good for this, thinking 3-4" thick if open cell?
1000D Cordura or Ballistic Cordura is about as durable as it gets, or for more natural fabric, a really (>16, maybe even 24 oz/sqyd) canvas would probably work as well. As far as foam, I know Joann's sells thick open cell foam by the inch(? maybe foot) so you could probably get some there.
Making my first bivy with silpoly pu4000 - do I want the coated side on the inside (for less pad slippage) or facing the ground?
Added: how wide should it be, flat on the ground, for a 30" pad?
I don't understand how to interpret Borah's/MLD's dimensions, with shoulder widths 72"-87". How does girth compare to flat? A circle with a 78" circumference has a 24" diameter
I like the coated stuff inside so the pad doesn’t slip.
If your using Silpoly PU4000, I assume that is only for the bathtub. For bathtub width, use your pad width (or shoulder width if shoulders are wider) plus twice the depth you want the bathtub to be, plus seam allowance.
You probably know this, but I can’t tell from your question so I’ll throw it out there to be safe. You cannot use Silpoly pu4000 for the entire bivy. It is ok for the bathtub floor. But it is not breathable and not suitable for the top of the bivy. A bivy made of all non-breathable waterproof would be loaded with condensation and would likely suffocate you.
The top needs to be either a DWR breathable, or better yet, a 2 or 3 layer waterproof breathable. Best is a mesh top (or Dimma style) that relies on a tarp for protection from rain.
I ended up going with the LytW8 bivy dimensions for the floor and full noseeum top. Still a work in progress, I just got my zippers today
That’s an awesome design! Post pics when you are done!
I have a bivy with a side zipper and a top opening that cinches around the face. It is this bivy: https://www.amazon.com/Equinox-Ultralite-Mummy-Bivi-Sleeping/dp/B001OPJVN2
When it is not cinched, the opening is flat across the top and rounded along the bottom edge like this: |)
I'm geometrically challenged or something and having trouble imagining a pattern to close this opening up with mesh so that it would have a built-in mosquito netting that could be suspended from above to keep it off my face. Any suggestions for what kind of shape the mesh would need to be? Has anyone done a similar project and have pictures they could show me?
You could cut a piece of Noseeum mesh that is several inches longer in each direction than the uncinched bivy opening. Cut it the same shape - I ) - but longer. Then you could sew a loop to the middle-ish of it for using a cord to suspend it away from your face. Then you could add pleats so the dimensions of each side are equal in length to the dimensions of the uncinched bivy opening. Once the mesh side dimensions are the same as the uncinched bivy, sew the mesh to the bivy. That should work.
Make the bread, buy the butter.
I just picked up a Paria tarp, but am looking at it thinking "why didn't I make this?". Its certainly cheap fabric, but how much would I gain by making it myself?
The Tarp kit at RSBTR is ~$30 cheaper and I'm guessing the fabric is significantly better. I could also go for silpoly instead of coated nylon and have fabric left over. Having never tarp camped as anything other than the human burrito, I'm wondering if I look at this as the butter. Get to know the lifestyle, and make one when I know what I want. BUT, I cloud make one now and later (with all the free time).
Any pro's to keeping this? Or am I just looking at a lower quality (assuming I can make tarps as well as I make clothing and bags) disposable introduction?
If you’re comfortable making clothing and bags, then you will have no problem with a tarp. Like you said, you can make one with better materials for less money. And you can choose the color, tie-out configuration, etc. Go for it!
Haha I do get to pick the color... but still went with the cheapest color option.
LearnMYOG.com monthly update. Huge month thanks to this awesome community. So, Thank You!!
Great work on the running vest! This is a very cool pattern and project. Looking forward to seeing what’s next.
Thank you for continuing to make MYOG more accessible to the community!