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r/grandorder•
TCZapper

Skill Levels for Looping Sieg in NA GilFest 2020

NA Guide

Sieg looping GilFest is a popular topic and people often ask what skill levels are needed and whether you need your own Waver (short answer: you can reliably clear but not in 3 turns. To reliably 3T you need Waver or Skadi for 50% battery). I wrote a guide and calculator to help figure that out.

Obvious disclaimer but I can't fully test this, so best to exceed the minimum skill requirements. If you do spot any mistakes please let me know.

Why is it popular?

The Para/Sieg/Double Waver 3T 5-slot team for GilFest (example) has gotten a lot of attention lately because it allows equipping 5 lotto CEs, only needs 1 gacha servant (Waver), and can reliably 3T clear one of the best lotto nodes (Semi-Finals) and on generally 3-4T the other best lotto nodes (Prelims and Finals).

What servants do I need?

Ideally: Sieg (MLB 200% dmg CE) + Para + Waver + Support Waver

You can substitute Skadi for Waver, if you have her, although there are some notes:

  • You'll need to max Para's battery
  • Skill requirements may be higher to loop unless you use DEF Down on W2 (sacrificing damage on W3)
  • Servants in Prelims/Finals can resist DEF Down on W3, reducing likelihood of 3T
  • Para NP can't guarantee kill the W1 lancers in Prelims with just one waver buff, so use attack>NP>attack to guarantee clear.

Don't have Skadi or Waver? It'll take more than 3T and need higher skills but you'll loop reliably, so it may be worth it to some of you. See spreadsheet below for more details.

What skill levels do I need?

Since there are 4 different skills affecting NP gain and 2 affecting overkill hits there is no one answer. But considering mat requirements and that arts effectiveness>NP gain as it also increases damage I suggest:

  • 6/8/10 Sieg and 3/8/8 Para should be sufficient for 2xWaver
  • Leveling the damage CE a bit or face carding before the W2 NP can further reduce this. e.g. level 40 CE should allow 4/6/10 Sieg
  • Alternative teams will probably need higher skill levels due to lower wave 2 damage=>less overkill hits=>less NP refund

As noted in the spreadsheet below, you can still use this team without your own Skadi or Waver but it isn't going to be a simple, reliable 3T. You can still probably 3-5T Semifinals with 5 slots, which is pretty good for a F2P team.

How can I calculate other skill level combinations?

Use this Spreadsheet.

You can also try combinations for non-2xWaver comps. Like using Skadi with her DEF down on wave 3 by reducing the 60%/1000 attack under "Other Buffs" to 30%/500.

Misc Stuff

Also, while working on this I found a generic tool for figuring out NP gain against a specific node. I recommend trying it out: https://gakiloroth.github.io/

Edit: to be safe I've tried to account for rounding thanks to BrrrMang's help. Might be too pessimistic, so 6/8/10 Sieg might be fine, but updated minimum requirements to be the safe values.

Edit Again: Reformated. Also since Para's upgrade is finally out I tested how rounding works. Rounding NP gain per enemy to 0.1% underestimated the NP refund, but removing rounding overestimated it, so updated to use 0.01%. So back to recommending 6/8/10.

Posted May 31, 2020, 7:20 PM UTC · edited

25353
BirbWitch The truth is, men make terrible pigs.•

Skill Levels for Looping Sieg in NA GilFest 2020

Interesting!

Double Waver

Ok, I'm out.

157
snowylion•

It's always double waver. There is no escape save through arash.

89
BirbWitch The truth is, men make terrible pigs.•

Yeah I know, my existence is doomed until the free 5 star.

32
elixxon UMU!!!•

There is one true Hell in this game... it is called the No Waver Hell...

18
Rezzy86•

I'm so lucky that I listened to my friend who said I should try to pull for Waver. He was my third 5* after Arthur and Drake.

4
Groonzie 2018: £852.85 | 2019: £639.72 | 2020: £65.31•

lol so this is like one of those F2P videos. "You can totally do this by simply just using shakespeare! you also need a MLB 100 black grail, double waver, merlin, 2x MLB ox king and the fully leveled mystic code."

54
TCZapperOP•

I own Google stock so this was actually all a clever scheme to convince people to spend money rolling for Waver in September.

25
za_shiki-warashi•

Well, the other alternative is to do this set-up. The caveat is that you will need to give up one CE slot and you need to have MLB IE/ non LB Kaleido.

9
HyperSunny 散り行った騎士道の華•

scope Sieg + Mozart is another possibility.

no scope gang rise up

5
RavenAxel Waiting for C97 doujins•

Since its kinda on topic, when searching for comps i also found a RNG 6 Slot comp for the Assassin node that uses Nero Bride instead of another Waver. The RNG is getting a Sieg arts card to form an arts chain on Turn 1 but for a greedy comp that needs 1 SSR on your own its good enough.

20
Sebasu•

Saving this for later. OP, you might want to repost this as well once Gilfest is upon us.

19
SpectralTime•

I always thought dragon fangs were the one thing I’d never run out of. But he’s done it. He’s wrung me dry on them.

That said I’m hoping that I can at least get him up to 6/6/6 soon. Maybe higher? I forget what chokepoint I hit when I finally scraped together enough fangs to upgrade one of them.

Edit: Looks like I was squeamish about dipping too deeply into my low-if-not-truly-empty stock of demon hearts around 8 on the middle skill. Oh well. If I remember correctly, there’s a hunting quest coming up that’ll fix that real good.

13
TCZapperOP•

You could look at leveling the damage CE. Looks like level 40 reduces Sieg's requirements to 5/6/10.

Edit: Updated requirements as 4/6/10 might not be safe depending on how rounding works.

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SpectralTime•

Well, I just used up a bunch of my bombs, but I’ve got one about primed and ready to go. I’ll try to save it for that.

3
ss2195•

I asked this earlier and someone mentioned not needing a second charger if you manage to get both to 10/10/10 with the Atlas mc.

Just need 97 void dust to get Para to max skills and Sieg just needs Lores. It's pretty much all I've been focusing on since he came out during the apoc event.

10
darkmacgf•

How does that work? Even Atlas shouldn't make the charge low enough to use any skills again. Something like 2004 MC would make more sense than Atlas.

19
ScarletReimilia alters are love, alters are life•

I know this is 14 days late, but it may assume just "wasting" one turn with facecards at the beginning to make it a more lenient setup that can still take the maximum amount of bonus CEs.

Sieg's battery is on 5 turns, so if you use it at the start and use atlas, and then waste one turn, it will be recharged by the time you get to wave 3.

2004 MC's NP Gain buff only helps if you find a way to get enough initial charge, so I assume that's why atlas was recommended instead. There is still a problem of not having enough initial charge for Sieg with atlas (Waver+Sieg only makes 80%), but it can be solved with an arts chain involving one of Sieg's cards, which is very likely to happen either on the wasted turn or the 2nd turn, but guaranteed by the third.

2
atropicalpenguin A maid of culture•

Thanks so much! I had already resigned myself to just Arash w1 and wait the extra year for arts looping to be a thing.

Now if only I didn't need caster gems to farm for more caster gems.

8
Kohaku_san Last Encore was good•

Semifinals has Assassins with low enough HP, I wonder if Sieg+double Waver+Tamamo could do it using Painting Summer instead of event damage CE.

7
BrrrMang•

Just taking a quick peek at the math in your spreadsheet calculator it seems like you may not be accounting for RNG which affects overkill hits. I may be wrong, though.

7
TCZapperOP•

There's RNG Multiplier=0.9 under Constants and Computed Values, so it should be assuming min damage.

19
BrrrMang•

My bad then, couldn't parse it out at first glance. What's that comment about NP refund at the top? Seems like you're doing an individual calculation on a hit by hit basis so I assume you shouldn't need to round anything.

7
TCZapperOP•

According to this I should be rounding down before and after the overkillModifier, but there is no indication of what to round down to e.g. multiples of 1%.

5
BrrrMang•

Hmm, well, I am pretty sure it rounds down to 1% like you are suggesting but you will never see it affect Sieg's NP because he is a 9 hit arts NP (in total) and arts has a 3x NP gain modifier. So 1 overkill hit is likely much more than 1%. If you want to test that theory, I recommend Dantes/Lancelot/Atalante who are quick (1x instead of 3x) and have a very large number of hits.

3
re_flex Hakunon servant for Guda powercouple•

Fuck, he's currently 1/5/5.

The most limiting factor for this comp for me is not having my own waver.

Oh well, I'll just STALL IT TILL IT DIES then.

4
MageOfTheEnd•

Is it possible to have Sieg's 3rd skill at level 9 instead and compensate with higher level for another skill for Sieg/Paracelsus? Looking to maintain maximum flexibility for Lores.

3
TCZapperOP•

Level 9 is 28% charge so as long as you get a refund of 71%+ you're fine. 9/9/9 Sieg and 3/9/9 Para is 74% so it works. You can play around with the calculator to possibly find lower requirements if you want.

3
MageOfTheEnd•

Thanks. What calculator are you referring to?

1
TCZapperOP•

The spreadsheet linked in the OP has a Calculator sheet where you can fill in skill levels and see how much refund they get.

1
gakiloroth Thighs are life.•

rly late but thanks for linking my little app :D

3
unlimitedcode99•

So maxing out Sieg while I'm swimming in QP was not a horrible mistake at all?

Still doing chain farming in Camelot still required me good RNG, plug suit, a CasGil...and double Waver...

with a routine of

30/30NP/NP gain boost/CasGil skills [Sieg NP]

>Waver skills/Swap/Waver skills [CasGil NP]

> Atk boost/Arts boost [Sieg NP]

and you need at least a 40%NP CE for it to work... using my single copy of Sakura V-day CE for that, definitely not F2P friendly as opposed to Ridertoki who can do CQs and story main quests in a breeze...

2
ScarletReimilia alters are love, alters are life•

@ u/TCZapper , I know this is basically 14 days late, but I only got linked here today and you do say to let you know if we spot any mistakes, so...

On the calculator part of the sheet, under "other buffs", the block for Arts+% seems to be ignored. I don't have my own Waver and can't guarantee a Skadi, so I'm just trying to figure out how to make things as consistent as possible given what I've got, but external arts buffs are not factored into the calculated result. I noticed 20/50% arts from swapping in either Helena or Tamamo didn't change the result, which was odd, so I tried ramping it up to 20,000% just to verify and indeed the calculation lists the same exact damage and NP generation as if Arts+% was still at zero.

I think this may be because the default values of the calculator itself assumes double waver, which is understandable given its the easiest build, but then it seems a slight bit odd to have a section to include arts buffs if it ignores them.

2
TCZapperOP•

Just a bug in the formula. It was definitely intended for cases like using Helena+Waver instead of 2xWaver.

Thanks, fixed!

Edit: Just in case anyone else reads this, Helena+Waver is not a reliable 3T replacement for 2xWaver. You'll need to stall wave 1 until you can arts chain with Sieg.

5
drekaelricHelado de caraota•

Leaving a comment to check this later

1†
megatsuna Send Gudao comics to me!•

underneath his post should be a save button that you can use to look at specific posts you wanna look at later

7
drekaelricHelado de caraota•

I check my comments more often than my saved post

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
INanoI•

Will this be best node to farm box currency?

Shoud have farmed more fsngs ... ;/

1
TCZapperOP•

GilFest rotates between 3 phases (Prelims, Semifinals, Finals) and each has a lotto-ticket-only node. Later phases are insignificantly (<1%) better, so all 3 are "best node". This team can clear all 3 best nodes.

1
INanoI•

GilFest rotates between 3 phases (Prelims, Semifinals, Finals) and each has a lotto-ticket-only node. Later phases are insignificantly (<1%) better, so all 3 are "best node". This team can clear all 3 best nodes.

Okay sounds good. Siege helped me out today and vs the dragons so the invesrment was already worth it.:) Gilfest is the cherry on top.

1
Valenhil•

Sorry for bringing this up so late, but can it really? Without class advantage I feel it won't be nearly enough damage on the last wave.

1
TCZapperOP•

To quote the spreadsheet:

Sieg's NP can't reliably clear the 3rd wave of the Prelims and Finals nodes, so it's not a guaranteed 3T, but close enough. Semifinals can be reliably 3 turned.

There are also video examples of each node in the spreadsheet.

Sieg carries a +200% damage CE. Combined with a +90% attack from 2xWaver and plugsuit, and +20% arts from Para, you should do over 100k damage regardless of class advantage.

3
[deleted]•

[deleted]

1
TCZapperOP•

No idea. Better to ask the help thread.

1
Dojmopo•

Damn, wish I could do this but unfortunately I'll have to lucksack Skadi or Waver. By the way OP, do you have any comps with Skadi and Waver instead of double Waver? I've seen a couple before but can't remember where they are.

1
TCZapperOP•

The spreadsheet's README page covers this in more detail, but you can run the same team with your own Skadi, it just suffers on damage since compared to Waver's ATK up, Skadi's DEF down can be resisted and can't be used for both W2 and W3 .

I don't know much about other comps.

3
Dojmopo•

Thanks a lot! I don’t know any different comps aside form an easy 4slot one but I’m sure very one knows about it now as it involves the usual free suspects (Arash, Spartacus).

You can also loop it with Jarcher but the costs are gonna be prohibitive.

1
Revan0315•

Would 10/6/10 Sieg work with 3/8/8 Hohenheim? I have Waver as well as that's not an issue. Sorry for posting a question so long after you initially made this?

1
TCZapperOP•

The whole point of making the calculator linked in the OP is so that you can do it yourself

2
Revan0315•

Fuck, my bad. Sorry

1