France blasts ‘extremely aggressive’ Turkish intervention against NATO mission targeting Libyan arms
france24.com/en/20200617-france-blasts-extrem...
france24.comPosted Jun 17, 2020, 5:43 PM UTC
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france24.comOperation Irini is an EU mission, not a NATO mission. For Emmanuel— NATO is brain dead — Macron to try to bring NATO into this is simply sad. Nobody can board a ship that is being escorted by the Turkish navy. The Greeks learned that last week. It would be plain and simply illegal.
Can't the French just accept that they lost in Libya? Even the UAE is starting to distance themselves from Haftar. Imagine getting outplayed by Erdogan — how embarrassing.
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Libya plan is not erdogans plan, whole oparation leading by kemalist navy officers and made by them aswell
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It wasn't his idea but he needs the nationalists support to stay in power.
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Operation Irini is an EU mission, not a NATO mission.
The ship was assigned to Sea Guardian, not IRINI.
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Turkeys warships are protected by laws and treaties. The Bahamas-flagged ships they escort are only protected by the threat of force.
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I'd like France to stop fucking with North Africa.
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You know, I dislike Turkey's aggressive foreign policy, but France should be the very last European country to criticize others for aggressive interventions, especially when it is about Libya.
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WHATABOUTAFRICA!!
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Well yeah, France is one of the main actors in Libya turning into a shitshow.
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To be fair Turkey is a main actor in this shitshow as well, maybe even bigger than France in recent years.
Going as far as to bring Syrian fighters to Libya:
Exclusive: 2,000 Syrian fighters deployed to Libya to support government
Their interests in supporting the UN-backed government also seems clear, before sending military aid this deal was signed:
Turkey-Libya maritime deal rattles East Mediterranean
Countries protect their own national interests. Turkey and France are no different in that regard.
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It's not about Turkeys intervention in Libya, it's about the one they did against other NATO warships to protect their illegal cargo.
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illegal cargo
how do you know that?
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Turkey isn't directly intervening in Libya. They're deploying Syrian rebels, drones and a dozen or so advisors. Compared to the UAE, France and Russia, their support is fairly minimal.
Edit: Country name
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The UAE has provided and operated advanced Chinese drones. They've also funded and recruited thousands of mercenaries from Sudan and Chad as well as from Wagner. Russia has recently provided 6 fighter jets to Haftar's forces. France is reported to have provided missiles to Haftar as well as diplomatic support.
Turkey has only been involved and providing weapons since late 2019. Their support isn't as heavy as that of UAE/France/Russia/Egypt.
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France should accept they lost Libya. GG no re
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That NATO mission that was supposedly targeting weapons going into Africa has been and remains pretty darn quiet about Russian Federation and UAE weapons going in.
Not that that should give Erdogan and his government any leeway, but if NATO was really interested, they would have blocked the jet fighters, the bombers, the heavy weapons, and the armored artillery going in to north Africa via Serbia, the Russian Federation, etc.
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It's a maritime mission. They can not block those land deliveries without a massive intervention in Libya.
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THAT'S what he is talking about, do you think all those generals from all those countries from EU don't know these ? do you think they don't know the weaponry that gets into Libya ? given by UAE , Russia etc. ? But they ONLY act to stop TURKEY'S/influence, help because THAT'S a threat for EU right ? and they know that this maritime mission was only gonna block(or supposed to) Turkey's help to UN recognized government of Libya ? THAT'S THE PROBLEM. (Also it's not a NATO mission, it's an EU mission)
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But they ONLY act to stop TURKEY'S/influence
No they don't. Sending a ship to try to inspect cargo and back off when told "we're escorting it" isn't acting, it's just diplomatic taunting
(Also it's not a NATO mission, it's an EU mission)
IRINI is a EU mission, Sea Guardian is a NATO mission.
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France knows exactly what's in those cargos and they know exactly the kind of response they are going to get from the escort. They are the ones doing the taunting. They are trying to force EU's hand into a conflict in libya that they are willing to go in but the rest of EU is not. It's as simple as that; provocation. They must be reminded daily that they are not a colonial power anymore.
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Why does France or Turkey even care about Libya?
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Turkey lost a lot of influence when Gaddafi was toppled. They made a lot of investments in infrastructure etc.
Also this:
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Europe is the only geopolitical region in the world that doesn't realize thay turkey is not an ally, and not even part of Europe, just because 3% of it is on the European continent. It's time to cut it loose.
When I look at a product and see that it was made or grown in turkey, I don't buy it. I even ask the store owner is there's an alternative that is more expensive.
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In Europe, UK is maybe the only country that ever considered Turkey an ally. I have never seen or read in my entire life any Continental European country refers to Turkey as "Ally", ever.
Turkey is, or has been, an ally of US, no one elses. NATO is centered around USA, and its real purpose has been dealing with Communist threat, Turkey's presence in NATO made a lot sense, today the existence of NATO doesn't make sense at all.
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UK had his lesson at WW 1 that never go agaisnt the turks.
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just because 3% of it is on the European continent.
that 3% has more population than most of EU countries, such as greece.
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Except...Turkey used to be called the Sick Man of Europe, you can't be OF Europe without being IN Europe.
Also, cut what loose? Relations are already at an all-time low.
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That is false.. the Ottoman Empire was just called the sick man, the of Europe part is just an invention.
Neither Nicholas nor Seymour completed the locution with the prepositional phrase "of Europe", which appears to have been added later and may very well have been journalistic misquotation. The first appearance of the phrase "sick man of Europe" appears in The New York Times (12 May 1860)
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Alright, even then, Cyprus is geographically 0% European. I don't see people whining about Cyprus being considered part of Europe though.
Thing is - whether you like it or not, Turks have affected and been affected by European culture a lot.
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Cyprus is geographically 0% European.
I agree
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Cyprus didn't attack and occupy parts of Europe for hundreds of years.
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Oh noes.
You can track arms supplies from Turkey by sea and air on the internet. The embargo is a joke.
I'm kinda impressed with how easily Turkey asserted themselves as the main decision maker in Libya, with Russia trying to get their word in, and the EU simply watching. You'd think the EU would be the top dog in the Mediterranean, but no.
Other commentaries in this thread are quite explanatory. Nobody in the EU wants to get their hands dirty in any foreign conflict except France. Even François Holland was ready to intervene in Syria after the use of chemicals, but he backed down following Barack Obama who kept pushing back the "red line" not to cross. Probably due to the huge failure that was Irak, in which many european powers intervened... except France, ironically.
French interventionism is to be criticized, sure. But the intervention in Lybia was UNO-agreed and, contrarily to americans in Irak, was not based on lies (although it clearly was a stunt from Sarkozy to protect his own personnal interests at the same time...). So what, now that it's shit there, we should just stop caring ? Come on EU, if you want to shit on France about military matters, at least try to have military capabilities, because right now we're a joke when it comes to it.
edit: added the end of the first paragraph.
it's easy: erdogan massively escalated, even resulting in deaths of their soldiers during the initial phases where mitiga airport was getting bombed a lot, and nobody did anything about it to contrast it. UAE, Egypt and Russia didn't escalate in response and eventually the LNA was not able to deal with losing the airspace (before it was UAE drones acting free, now it's turkish ones).
No european country can justify deaths to hold up a favourite government in Libya, considering that both have democratic deficits and base themselves on militias and tribes, and that the gas issue is only tangential to Libya. Stopping migrants just involves sending money to tribal leaders, it doesn't matter who's the boss in Tripoli.
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