Source
r/starcraft•
PhaseShift11

Diamond level Zerg requiring a radical adjustment in his ZvP

Hey guys, I'm like high plat low diamond (don't play too much ladder 1v1, mostly against my friends for practice/fun in customs).

I'm not really inclined to post a replay, because I do a lot of things wrong (pretty rusty still), but the problem is I lose even when my friend/opponent does a lot of things wrong as well.

If someone goes forge first outside his natural (e.g., on shattered temple) and walls off with gateways, cyber core, forge, and does a fast expo, how should I play it? He told me his collosus come out at about 12 minutes or so doing that build, so should I aim for some sort of massive roach ling pressure at 11 minutes and try to win the game before that point? If so, what's a good build for that? If not, what should I do instead?

What should my lategame composition be? "Roach hydra corrupter" in what amounts? This is assuming a deathball with maybe 5-6 collosus, 5-6 voids, lots of stalkers and zealots.

How do I harass him when he makes a tight wall in at his front, and has 1 cannon in front / in each of his mineral lines to stop any infestor burrowed or nydus stuff? He basically gets on 2-3 base and sits there with his whole army and warps in 5-6 stalkers wherever I try to harass or put a nydus or anything.

Then he moves out and a-moves and wins handily.

Thanks for any help. (Also not sure if this subreddit is the best place for this instead of SC2 class, but I figure anything about Starcraft should be able to go on the Starcraft subreddit).

EDIT: Thanks for the help so far guys, there's some great info in your responses. I have a couple follow-up questions if you don't mind - what are good timings for certain tech/units in this matchup, assuming I'm facing a passive Protoss trying to get the deathball? You guys said get your third ASAP, so I'm thinking 7-9 minutes. What about the other 3 gases? Spire? Infestors? Broodlords? My problem is I seem to get stuck in the mid-game, until I'm almost maxed on roaches and I realize "oh crap, I need a spire/hive/greater spire" and by then it's too late.

Posted May 22, 2011, 7:05 PM UTC · edited

64
pooptartsSamsung KHAN•

Replays would really help. I know you don't want to hear "just macro better lol" or whatever, that's fine, but a replay gives us so much more information. There may be strategical elements of your play which you just take for granted or have not noticed. If we don't have that then we can only offer vague suggestions. Anyways here's my take on how the pros are playing ZvP

If you're trying to win in the late game, denying the third base will greatly delay the deathball push and provide you with enough time to build the army that can beat the protoss army. Scout when protoss take their third base by leaving a ling/overlord/whatever at the location. Usually their army won't be strong enough to hold off a strong midgame zerg army. Tunneling claws will probably be necessary to circumvent forcefields. If you can delay the third long enough, you should be able to find time to tech up to the broodlords and infestors which are necessary to hold of the zerg lategame army. You could also try the multi-pronged drop harassment which IdrA likes to do, but it is significantly harder to control while maintaining your macro. As for your army composition, you probably roach/hydra/infestor/broodlord. Fungal growth will do heavy damage to the protoss ball as the colossi/stalkers/voidrays will be stacked on top of one another. Broodlords are just good in any zerg lategame army.

3
kengouProtoss•

If you spot a forge fast expand, I think the best response is to quickly take a 3rd, like as fast as possible. He won't be able to apply much immediate pressure.

You can try a big bust but if he has good forcefields and puts up cannons in time, you won't break him. For harassment I recommend drops. Roaches, lings, banelings, hydras, whatever, just snipe tech and probes.

For your army, I honestly think roach-hydra-corrupter is just not the answer anymore. Zergs are figuring out it's just too flimsy. Roach+Infestor is pretty strong, especially if they have void rays. Ling-infestor can also be good. Fungal the sentries to get rid of forcefields, neural parasite the colossi so the lings get to do a ton of damage. And fungal once again works great on void rays.

That's my opinion as high diamond Toss, that's what gives me the hardest time. If I see infestors I basically stop going colossus and get templar - and void rays are almost a waste of money.

2
uracilTeam Liquid•

Nestea's response to Forge expand. http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/vod/65228

Also, mass roach with infestor is really good. If game is still going, go broodlords, forcing him void rays so u can go mutas or hydras.

Also, when he forge expands, nydus can work SOMETIMES, make sure u scout often. If u want to harass, try drops in his base.

Masters protoss and masters zerg here.

2
hardethanolninjaZerg•

Diamond Zerg here.

If I see a forge fast expand, I do one of two things:

  1. If his sentry count is high (think more than 6) you probably can't bust down his front wall without heavy losses. Sometimes it works in your favor, but it's a bit risky. I prefer to just expand to a third if he is investing a lot into sentries, because he wont have the gas to support a strong army for awhile. I personally like to get a hydra den and a few hydras just incase of air harass or gateway pushes while you drone up your third and possibly fourth. This lends itself well to dropping hydras in the mid to late game, because they shred buildings and workers quickly. I'm not a huge infestor fan vs Protoss, so I'll usually get a good roach/corruptor army with strong upgrades. Be aggressive with corruptors and snipe colossus when you can to keep the count low.

  2. If you think his sentry count is low enough, or your spawn is close by ground, a roach/ling bust can win the game early for you. Just stop making drones at about 30 on 2 bases and pump roaches and lings as much as you can. Keep an eye on his base, and when his cannon count is low, head in with your roaches. Try to break the wall without taking many losses. Focus on sentries first, then zealots. Once sentries are down/out of energy, rush in with your lings. Try to slip some into his main worker line, and have the others kill pylons so that he can't re-enforce. If he is out of zealots, have your lings fight the stalkers and use roaches to kill the pylons and cybernetics core.

The best advice I can give is to be ready to counter attack at all times. Posture 20 lings near his base, and when you see him move out, sent them into his mineral line. If he pulls back, then you just bought yourself another production cycle. If he doesn't, he wastes a warp cycle defending his base, and probably lost some income as well.

Hope this helps! GLHF

2